The Brew Cabin

Can anyone tell me which one of these would be the best to lay in terms of quality and lasting.

They are totally different products.

The Gironde is a wet-cast concrete flag - it's one of the best of it's kind, and far superior to many of the cheaper options you'll see in DIY sheds, but, at the end of the day, it's a concrete flag, that derives its colouring from artificial dyes and in 15 years time, it'll look like a concrete flags.

The Indian sandstone is real stone; however, there is a lot of variation in quality amongst the Indian sandstones. Some of the imported flags are top notch tackle, but some of the shadier elements in the paving trade are supplying inferior quality stone, flags that can crumble or disintegrate after a couple of British winters. Having said that, if you get the good stuff, then 15 years from now, it'll still look like stone.

In terms of laying, there's nowt to choose. Both need to be laid on individual beds, both should be mortar jointed, both come in modular sizes.

The only real contrast is which you prefer and what sort of money you want to pay. I'm not alone in my belief that the days when even the top-of-the-range wet-cast products could ask for 25-30 quid per square metre while natural stone is available for 15-20 quid, are numbered, and each year has seen the market share for the imported stone grow, and a certain amount of that growth is at the expense of the top-end wet-cast products.

But, having said all that, the choice must be yours. It's what you like that matters most. Both will certainly give you 10 years minimum of good service, which is not bad going, really. There's 'issues' with both regarding medium and long-term maintenance, and I can't really say one is a better performer than t'other.

I know which I would choose, but it's not my patio, and it's not me that has to look at it every day, so you choose which one you like most.

Thanks for responding so quickly, I guess I am a little concerned that the Indian Stone may not be of good quality but other than this I would prefer to use it.

Any other tips on how I might be able to tell if it is aside from what you have already said in your description of Indian Stone. Thanks again Chanelle

The best way to obtain a quality Indian sandstone is to buy from a quality supplier. It does tend to be the 'retailers' who wouldn't know which way up to lay a flagstone which get conned into selling the sub-standard stuff. Some of the flags I've seen in some Garden Centres would be lucky to survive a winter, but then, many of the GCs are driven by the profit motive, and if someone offers them flagstone at 7 quid a square metre and they can retail it for 25, then they leap at the chance. The specialist paving supply companies and most BMs are a little more 'on-the-ball' when it comes to spotting a duff 'un.

One test you can do for yourself, is to rub the flagstone between thumb and forefinger quite firmly. If there's any crumbling, stay away. Also look at the grain size; with the better quality stone, it's almost impossible to identify individual grains - the fine-grained stones make for better flags, generally speaking.

Thank you again for all your advice - this site is really fantastic for someone like me who knows nothing about the subject but wants to get their own project right.
Chanelle

Whilst Tony is correct in many ways, I have seen hundreds of paved areas in quality reproduction form, that look more natural and authentic after 15 years then they did when they were first laid.

My views on the quality and authenticity of reproduction of Bradstone's Gironde, are not particularly important, but I think that it should be emphasized that reproductions of old or reclaimed materials, such as Gironde, have an intended aged patina which you do not see in indian sandstone. After 15 years, Indian Sandstone will probably look as if its been laid for about 15 minutes!! It is very 'square' and contemporary in appearance. A good reproduction (see also www.westminsterstone.com !!) after 15 years could look as though it's been there 150 years if you want it to. It really depends on the effect that you're trying to achieve.

Cheers

(Edited by J H Clifford at 7:34 pm on April 18, 2004)

I'm sorry but I must disagree with J H
reproduction flags are basically concrete with cement colourings mixed up in them, the problem is concrete is made primarily from a limestone based mix, limestone being white. After a period of time the surface of these flags wears and the limestone aggregate shows through giving the flags an appearance of having gravel on it's surface, maybe this is what J H means by looking weathered but the flag will barely resemble what it first looked like which to me means it no longer looks like the flag you like the look of. I am a landscaper and I rarely lay reproducion flags any more,as Tony says do not disclude these I still have customers who prefer repro flags and most manufacturers only guarantee their products for 10 years anyway. Just be aware that in 10-15 years time they will not look like the flag you now choose. Where are you based? perhaps either myself or Tony could reccomend a supplier if you decide on Indian stone I myself have just arranged to import some to my yard for retail (I am really impressed with it you may have gathered). I actually travelled to India to inspect the stone of various quarries before choosing my supplier (who wasn't the cheapest) and would be happy to supply you a guarunteed product if you are in my area if not maybe theres someone else with credentials you could check for yourself. You really could do to see both products laid in quantity before you make up your mind, many builders yards have display areas laid ask them how long the flags have been down and view for yourself before you need to make up your mind. Hope this helps Dave.

We are all entitled to our own opinions!

I also distribute a very good quality of Indian Sandstone, because there clearly is a market for it, and it does look superb in the right place. But it does not look old. And yes - you probably will find that some reproduction flags will show exposed aggregate in time; after all there are good and bad quality concrete flags as well as Indian sandstone flags.

If you want something to look old and characterful, either buy real recalimed York flags, or a top notch reproduction. Don't buy Indian sandstone, because it doesn't!!

Cheers