The Brew Cabin

What a great site, seems to have all the answers. I only have one query after watching an episode of groundforce old tommy laid two round patios in about an hour , I wondered what you thought of his method. Seems to consist of about 2 inches of wet mortar on bare earth and then pointed up with a dry mix of sand cement brushed in afterwards.I would hate to have to get that lot of the back of them if it ever had to come up.

Tommy chooses to lay on a wet mix, and there's nowt wrong with that. Jointing with a dry mix in such a method is fine, because there is virtually no delay between laying and jointing, and then the dry-mix draws moisture from the wet bedding, which initiates curing.

Although this is not my preferred way of working (I prefer a semi-dry bed and mortar pointing) it comes down to a matter of personal preference. I prefer my way; Tommy prefers his, but, in effect, we are both laying on a full bed with a cement-bound jointing, and so we are both equally "right" - I'm just grateful that he doesn't promote the despised spot-bedding method that I still see being demostrated on some of the other DIY/makeover programs!

Having worked with all of the Groundforce team members on a previous website, I know they are very careful to show 'best practice' as far as possible, and, to be fair, there's nothing I can fault with most of the paving methods shown, bearing in mind the limited time-span they have onsite and the non-vehicular use of their efforts. Some of the methods shown are not suitable for driveway or heavy-use construction, but then, the GF team never try to give the impression that they are.

It's worth pointing out that Tommy's bedding mix is different to mine. From memory, I seem to recall that he uses a combination of sharp and soft sand, whereas I will only use sharp/grit sand, but then, I think I've heard him explain his preference by arguing that the soft sand makes for a better binder in a wet mix, something that doesn't come into the equation with a semi-dry method.

So - you get to choose. After almost 40 years of working with flags and other pavings, I can't be persuaded that wet bedding is a better choice, but I dare say that there are some flaggers that can't work with a semi-dry mix. :)

I see what your saying about choices of bedding material (horses for courses and all that ) but it has left me a bit puzzled. I recently posted a query about depth of sub base prior to laying a patio for someone. I priced the job based on 75 mm of compacted sub base 50mm of bedding material. All in all a lot of digging and wheelbarrowing for a relatively light use patio. If i went the groundforce route then there seems to be no sub base and i may have priced myself out of a job, but i guess I guess given another twenty years i might get the job sussed out.

A sub-base isn't necessary for a patio. That doesn't mean you shouldn't use a sub-base, just that it isn't essential, as it is with a vehicular area such as a driveway.

If the sub-grade, when reduced to formation level, is found to be firm and stable, then there's nowt wrong with using a 35-50mm bed of sand or cement-bound material as a 'stand alone' bedding layer, as it says on the Patios page.

In your previous question, you stated that your were planning to use a sub-base, so I assumed there was some reason why you thought a sub-base was required, such as a lift in levels or a suspect sub-grade, and you seemed to be querying the minimum thickness for a sub-base, which is where the figure of 75m came from. If you'd asked whether a sub-base was essential, you'd have got a different answer.

I hope that's cleared it up for you. :)