The Brew Cabin

Hi everyone

With the help of pavingexpert.com we have just finished laying our brand new patio and I must say we're pretty chuffed with the results.

We've used some gorgeous reddish cream riven Indian sandstone flags, and laid in a "random" pattern.

We think that when the stone is wet it looks better than when its dry.
There's two reasons:
1. You can see the colours and texture of the stone better when they're wet.
2. We just prefer them looking darker - they almost look "dusty" when dry.

My question is how can we achieve a wet look?

I've read what this site has to say about sealers and I'm not convinced. Plus the Chester B&Q has some treated bradstone concrete stone flags on display and they looked a bit plasticky.

Would oiling the stones make them look wet?

All suggestions gratefully received by a first time patio layer! Thanks in advance everybody.

Cheers,
Stevie

This subject of using sealants on stone flags is fast becoming a FAQ. There's hardly a day goes past without someone emailing me about it, and asking what product I would recommend. So, I've asked a number of sealant manufacturers to supply me with samples of their jollop so that I can try it out on various flags, photo the results, and post them to a page on the site. So far, one manufacturer has responded, which is a bit disappointing.

Anyway, what you mustn't do is use oil! It'll turn your lovely Indian stone into an Indian icerink and you'll be ineeding a season ticket for A&E!

There are different types of sealant. Some are glossy, some are 'low sheen', and some have no discernible effect on the appearance, but protect the surface from everyday stains (allegedly!) I guess that what you're looking for is one that's somewhere between low sheen and glossy, so you could try Resiblock "22" Ultra or the Hagesan Impregnating Sealer. However, you really need to test these out in a discreet corner or on an old offcut of your paving before committing yourself. It's not unknown for sealants to have 'peculiar' results on some types of natural stone.

If you can hang on until next weekend, I've a couple of meetings next week at The Stone Show in London Village when I hope to obtain samples and a fuller picture of just what's available, what it looks like when applied, how much it costs, where you can get it, along with what others in the stone trade reckon to be their personal choice.

Given the weather forecast, they'll have a natural 'wet look' for most of next week, anyway!

Thanks very much Tony

Yes I'll wait until you've looked into the various options after the show at the weekend. Really do appreciate any advice you can give.

First official "use" of the new patio occured last weekend - sat out there for a very brave and chilly breakfast on Saturday morning. Can't say we lingered over our cornflakes but now looking forward to the first barbie!

Thanks again for the good work.

Stevie

I have returned with a bulging sack - full of info and conflicting advice on the use of all sorts of sealants. I'll try and summarise what I've learned into a single 'document' over the next day or so and post it here as soon as I've got my head around it. After that, I want to turn it into a page within the main site so that it's accessible to all :)

Thanks Tony

Look forward to hearing how you get on.

As a general rule, does stone paving weather to a darker or a lighter colour over time? I would guess it would darken with age.

Cheers and TIA
Stevie

Generally, stone paving darkens with age, due more to the accumulation of crud rather than any chemical reaction with the atmosphere, as is often the case with masonry (stone walls etc not subjected to trafficking).


Anyway.....

Sealants:

I looked at a couple of sealants while I was at the Stone Show in London last week, and it came as no great surprise to be told by each of the manufacturers that their particular product was the best available, the most cost effective, the market leader and the only one I would ever need.

So, taking the various options in no particular order....

Delta: An Italian company that is relatively new to the UK market, but they promise an aggressive marketing strategy in the coming year.

Wet Seal - "Anti-Stain Wet-look finish for unpolished marble, granite and natural stone" - the bumf claims this jollop protects the stone from moisture and general stains while bringing out the vibrant colours and textures of natural stone. It claims to be long-lasting and then goes into some owld guff about being technologically advanced and protecting the stone from within. It does not create a film or plastic-laminate look, is UV resistant and allows vapour to escape.

2 coats recommended and expect a coverage rate of 8-10m² per litre and a cost of around 20 quid per litre!!!

More info - I spoke to Franco Harris and you can email via stonecarebydelta AT yahoo.co.uk or call their Slough HQ on 01628 602325


Lithofin (Lye-tho-fin): A German outfit with many years of experience. Fairly well-established in the UK, but products can be hard to source. They promise to rectify this immediately, possibly in the light of Delta's marketing claims!

The MN range (catchy name, I know!) is aimed at natural stone and concrete products
MN Stain-Stop is a solvent-based silicon gunk that is absorbed by the stone but does not alter its appearance, for which you need another MN product, the MN Colour Intensifier. Stain-stop covers 6-8m² per litre on a typical sandstone, as does the Colour Intensifier, and prices are around the 30 quid mark for a litre. For those with an aversion to solvent-based sealants, there is a water-based alternative, StainStop W, which has a slightly better coverage rate, 8-12m² per litre, but, if it's owt like other water-based sealants, it won't last anywhere near as long.

More info - I don't know who it was I spoke to, except that he seemed to think I should pay for the privilege of featuring his products on my website - I put him right on that! ;)
The UK operation is based in Alresford in Hampshire and run by CASDRON Enterprises (their capitalisation, not mine!) tel: 01962 732126 or email sales AT lithofin.co.uk


Other products:
These items were not at the Stone Show but I've discussed their products with them on previous occasions....

HG Hagesan - a Dutch crowd with a good reputation and decent distributor network via Topps Tiles. Their most suitable product for stone flags outdoors is probably the Impregnating Sealer, a non-silicon based protection system.

The UK HQ is in Colchester - Tel: 01206 795200 and their Website offers more info.



LTP International - A British company with a basic range of products aimed primarily at Terracotta tiles, but also suitable for stone and/or concrete flags, they say. The products I've seen do not give a wet-look, although they seem to have a more extensive range which includes wet-look sealants.

Tel: 01823 666213

Web - Website


Then there are the companies listed on the Sealants Links page. Resiblock can't be faulted but their products are aimed more at concrete rather than natural stone. Ronseal/Thomsons are the 'Jack of all Trades' and I've seen some terrible varnish-look pavements that have been daubed with Water-seal, and Hexham haven't supplied me with any info on the suitability or otherwise of their stuff on stone paving.

Speaking with other professionals in the stone paving trade, most are loathe to use sealants on natural stone, but know that it's becoming popular for patios and so, like me, have been trying to establish what's what and what's shite. I suspect that quite a few suppliers will start to recommend certain products later this year or for next season, but, I'm stil confused. I'd really like to try out some of these products for myself, on natural stone flags and setts of various types, so I'll try and arrange a mass testing trial later this summer with a view to putting up pictures and comments in time for next year.

Bloody Hell Tony talk about comprehensive!

I'll chew on all that and let you know how I get on.

Cheers
Stevie

I told you it needed a page to itself, which I get done later this year, if I get a bit of co-operation from the manufacturers. :)

Hi Steve
Ive used a number of sealants over the years including some of the big company ones and ive found that techcon supaseal is better than most.

I advise you to use the matt version not gloss as this keeps the paving looking more natural but still darkens it bringing out the colours.On indian sandstone it looks fantastic.

I do advise you though before using it that you MUST make sure you have adequate drainage as you do not want pools of water on your pride and joy.
Good Luck
Kris....

Heres Techcons phone number Stevie its...01384 566533

Did you get a new address for them, Kris?

I'll give them a call later and get them to send me their new details.

Hi Tony
Ive just got their number they are sending me all their new details by post ill keep you informed m8.

Hi i'v used Thompsons blockpaving sealer on blocks and flags, it's just what your looking for.
All bm sell it ,focus,b&q its about £15 ish you need 2 coats very easy to apply.I think you get 5ltrs
Good luck

(Edited by dak uk at 12:10 am on May 20, 2003)

Thanks Krismac, Tony and Dak

Techon only supply in 25 litre drums.
But they have given me the number of a local customer who apparently uses a lot of their supaseal matt. I'll try to get a jamjar of the stuff from them and test it on a small area first.

cheers guys
Steve