Page 1 of 2
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:49 am
by sy76uk
I ripped a BT line up whilst taking a tree stump out yesterday.
It was unavoidable.
The line was burried about 8" down and right next to the tree stump.
Luckily the client could see it was unavoidable and isn't making me pay for it.
Thing is he could have been funny and made me pay for it.
There was a virgin cable on the same job but in a different place. No armour at all just a poxy wire burried 2" down.
Luckily I spotted the box on the wall and the service lid on the footpath so I got it out without any damage.
How can company's the size of BT and virgin get away with leaving services so shallow?
For me they always seem to be the 2 main culprits when I'm digging off a drive and all because the lazy gits CBA digging a proper trench.
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:00 pm
by mickg
because there is no legal limit on the depth of any of the services any more its up to the engineers discretion if its your fault or he is lenient and does not make you take liability
25 years ago Nynex cable guys got paid £25 per household installation and they had to install X amount of houses a day to make it pay with the 3 man team, it was suppose to be installed 14 inches deep but never was as they did not have enough time, fast forward 25 years and now its Virgin they won't stand by any liability any more if you cut through the cable its £40 to get it fixed
BT normally is installed deep enough on older properties but on new estates if they install the duct first then the digger driver comes along and scrapes the top off the dirt the duct can become close to the surface and become an issue years later as we turn up and remove a further 250mm
over the years we have damaged 3 gas pipes, I had to take liability on one of them as I knocked a steel road pin right through the centre of the gas pipe but they still tried to charge me full price but I managed to get it reduced, the other 2 incidents the gas engineer kindly agreed to fix them for us with no charge
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:10 pm
by sy76uk
I didn't realise that the old cable installers were on so little. It's not surprising that they barely lifted the turf on that kind of money.
No excuse for BT though. The cable was no more than 300 below DPC with no indication of where it was buried. You'd think they'd be buried at least 600 down. That's what we do on new builds.
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:08 pm
by lutonlagerlout
we always ask where the meters are and the rising main for the water
that gives you an indication
I then dig a slit trench down 300 with a spade to see if i can find them
CAT is ok for electric
my mate used to install the cables for cabletel in the pavement
a 3 man team were doing 150 metres a day and earning 800 quid a week in the early 90s
of course now all the pavements have collapsed because they didnt backfill and compact them properly
we did 1 drive where the iron gas main had 20mm of tarmac on top of it
real jobchanger if the customer is not forthcoming
LLL
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 5:36 pm
by mickg
I agree Tony we always locate any services at the house and at the pavement before commencing with the removal of any existing surfaces
same round our way 3 man team earning 600 - 800 a week when they got to any junction the traffic lights would be out, phones out of action or water gushing 15 feet in the air, they had to do 100 - 150 metres a day installing ducting and back filled suppose to be 14 inches down but they would get the ducts in and back filled leaving the ends showing at the junction boxes what would be the correct depth
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:04 pm
by GB_Groundworks
As long as it's not fibre optic by bt and virgin coax can just be twisted or junction boxed together then bound up in insulation tape etc there's no voltage hardly and often very shallow.
Electrics the worst to hit Big Bang hole in your bucket and bright sparks and expensive repair it's about £1500 light or £350 cash if you know the guys
Working for my dads firm building new stand at sale rugby club we ripped out sky tvs fibre optic link to the satellite up load site in Manchester they wanted £125k to relay it as it can't be spliced only relayed repeater to repeater.
Luckily it was 50m from indicated on plan
We always cat scan and do visual checks before digging looks for signs on footpath etc and signs at the house let you trace them
If you have a genny with your cat you can place it over a pipe or drain and in induction mode often let you trace it that way
Some of the newer mdpe gas and water pipes have tracer wires to make locate them but generally on bigger stuff.
Edited By GB_Groundworks on 1397931156
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:48 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
A funny one whilst working for the Irish London firm with the dark green vans . Fat mick decided to dig out the footpath on Argyll street in the west end with the jcb lol and went through the electric and knocked off sister act for the matinee and evening performance at the London palladium 
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:04 pm
by rab1
Lets be honest, fat mick was doing the viewing public a service there lol
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:53 pm
by lutonlagerlout
and that is funny rab :laugh:
LLL
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:26 pm
by Dave_L
Repairing diggerised BT cables yourself is possible but they do get damp in the future and they do cause trouble. We were ripping safety kerbs out and installing deep aco drainage on a trading estate in Brixham, Devon last year, and broke a BT cable that was 250mm below finish, directly underneath the kerb! BT out and repaired, no charge. Also a BT cable at the backedger between the back of the footpath and driveway - 80mm below surface, diggerised!! Again, no charge.
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:21 pm
by DNgroundworks
I bust a couple of gas pipes before, one a 65mm pipe went up the inside of a dry stone wall as either side of the wall was different levels, when i pushed the wall over with the machine the pipe bust, no charge for that one.
Second one was stripping turf off a garden and i nackered a smaller pipe, had to pay for that in the end....even with a lawyer on side. The damn thing was about 50mm deep......there are guidelines that state they have to be a minimum of 475mm deep, but they argued that these where just guidelines and not legal requirements.
I was excavating a drive last year and was just cleaning off the brick work up against the house with a spade, didnt see the cable and cut the thing clean off! blew a big hole in the spade, the engineers couldn't believe i didnt got a shock, i must of just let go of the steel shaft! Anyway they agreed that it was too shallow and said they would alter the paperwork, about 3 months later a got a bill for £1000.00
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:36 pm
by sy76uk
I thought I'd get a few stories when I posted this thread up.
Fat mick cancelling sister act at the london palladium had my OH in stitches.
Anyone tried getting the client to sign a bit of paper saying "if I hit anything that's higher than 300mm below finished level it's down to you?"
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:53 pm
by GB_Groundworks
why would they? its your responsibility?
we go slow with toothless bucket in very thin layers 40-50mm and have a banksman checking ahead with spade if we suspect there are gonna be services
if you just crash in and dig without thinking then its on you if you hit something
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:36 pm
by KLS
We have a term in our t&cs that states if a service is not obvious or made clear to us by the homeowner then we don't take responsibility. It helped us out once when one of the lads hit the electrical feed to the house when we where putting a fence in down a boundary. It was the only part with no warning tape, as they back filled I think the tape went 1 way and the cable the other. The client paid for a sparky to come out and repair it.
Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:47 pm
by sy76uk
I'd just like to point out that I'm no amature and I'm very careful whilst I'm digging.
I always check the footpaths outside the house for service lids. I always lift inspection chambers to see which way the pipes are going and I always check the house walls for meter/other types of boxes to see where buried cables/pipes are so why the hell should I/we fork out for damage done to sevices that are not clearly marked or pointed out to us by the home owners because some lazy git CBA to dig a proper trench?