The Brew Cabin

Posted: **Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:16 am**

Hello,

After carrying out many landscape projects over the years an only having the occasional problem. I have now have a nightmare of a client, after working on her project for a while now, she has decided to cancel the works and bot pay for anything carried out up to the present date. She has had a new patio put in, -theres no problems with this by the way - she originally said she was very pleased with it (only 2 x 3 metres) also had steps installed, pond dug out ready to begin constructing, 30 foot laurel hedge x 8 - 9 ft height cut down and removed, 2 of 20 foot approx trees taken down, 17 young trees cut down (5 ft or so in height) stone wall partly built and gravel and weed membrane also in the process of being installed.
she did pay Â£500 some weeks ago towards materials, which i have recently been invoiced off my suppliers for Â£934.00 but she now has decided to cancel the project and not pay any more. she says this is due to the job taking longer than expected, and says she originally did need it doing by july 1st, she cancelled the job 3 weeks ago, and i did say to her that it would be done by the said date, anyway she is now blaming me saying its my fault that the job wont be completed on time, when she instructed us to stop work in the first place. -for no satisfactory reason whatsoever. shes also saying that if i dont remove all tools and materials within the next few days - she will have them removed herself and invoice me!! as ive recently sent her a bill for Â£2800, which includes all materials and labour at a Reduced rate!! but no shes still refusin gpayment! I doubt it would be worth while even considering the small claims court, as by the wording of her letter, she clearly sound slike she has done this sort of thing before! And is inbusiness herself, and probably knows more than me to do with legalities etc.

Ive never had an awkward client ever, so this one has very much suprised me.
She has also said that she has had three other landscape companies round, and they say that NONE of the work is done correctly, and it all needs to be ripped up and started again!!! (personally i think there taking the p1ss as she is a very rich lady, and they have obviously spotted some easy money here). Theres nothing wrong with our companies work, and im beginning to think that she is just looking at excuses for not to pay!
A friend has recently suggested, that as she did say that this 'all needs to be ripped up' (she left message on anserphone) - why dont i go round there and rip it up myself?? -am i allowed to do this, or is it 'criminal damage or illegal in any way???

Has anyone else ever been in situations like this??
Any help or advice for future works or anything would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Posted: **Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:08 pm**

Having read your post, I am so angry at the way customers think they can behave in this way, and get away with it.
Every now and again, we get this sort of thing, and we wonder how best to deal with it.
Let me tell you now, I can help with this!!
Firstly, timescale has nothing to do with it. You give a quote, you do the work. It takes as long as it takes. If you run over what you have allowed for, you lose money, likewise, if it is under time, you make money. Unless you gave her something in writing about the timescale, then she cant fault it. Besides, you werent given the chance to complete this on time as she cancelled prior to the job finishing.
You are entitled to charge her for all works carried out,and all materials used to date. She has to pay legally, and refusing to do so because she says the work is not up to standard is stupid.
By saying she has had other landscapers round and they have said it is all done wrong is common. They are telling her what she wants to hear. They want the job of finishing what you have started. They are not likely to go round and say it is okay (even though I know your work will be okay from what you have said), as they are just wasting their time. there is nothing in it for them.
I had a similar incident about 5 years ago. Same sort of thing. Owed about Â£1000, but had to take him to court.Refused to pay due to shoddy workmanship. He got an "independant" report done on my work, But the judge threw this out as inadmissable evidence,as the person reporting was found to be unqualified!
My neighbour also had a job stopped midway, and a refusal to pay. They were great customers to him, made him lunch and breakfast, brought out tea etc., said what a great job he was doing, then cancelled in similar circumstances. He was owed about the same as you, and he got his money.
Take my advice. Go to court. It honestly works. I have done it and I have given advice to others to do the same thing, and they have won on every occasion.
Here is what I advise you to do:

1. Do not enter into any further telephone communications, as these cannot be recorded as evidence.
2. Write to her now stating that all communication must be done in writing. No telephone calls will be entered into.
3. Collect all your tools and materilas not used ASAP.
4. Try to gather photographic evidence of your work if possible. If the customer refuses to let you do this, get it in writing. If they refuse this, it is yet another nail in their coffin.
5. State in your letter that unless Full Payment is recieved in 10days, A county court summons will be issued.
6. Deliver BY HAND then she cant say she hasn't recieived anything
7.Keep all invoices of materials used, and Sub contractors etc.
8. Itemised phone bills are good too, to prove you have tried to talk to her reasonably.

Do all the above as soon as you can and start gathering evidence. Also, Contact the court and get a form sent out, so you are prepared if she doesn't pay.

It would be illadvisable to go round and rip up what you have done. You wont get any money, and you spend even more of your own trying to do it. I am not sure if it is entirely legal or not too.

I hope this helps, and please contact me if I can be of any further help, or you need more assistance if and when you go to court.

By the way, i bet you are wondering what happens if the courts orders them to pay and you still dont get anything?

Well, they have a CCJ against their name (they fail credit checks etc.) and you can send in the bailiffs. You also get all your costs back, and interest too!

Posted: **Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:29 am**

Thanks Dan, Your advice is really appreciated. At least things sound like they have a chance of looking up. I'll follow your advice and hopefully recieve some if not all of the money im owed.

Posted: **Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:56 am**

Dan's advice is basically sound, the only thing I would change would be that I'd send any letters be recorded delivery rather than deliver by hand. That way, you have independent, third party verification of receipt.

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that it's usually the wealthy sods that try to rip you off, while the pensioner couple struggling on a meagre pension are usually keen to settle up in full as soon as a bill is submitted? I know I've mentioned it before, but even a decade later, I still feel my blood pressure rise whjen I recall the scumbag solicitor/barrister that deducted money from my invoice for "inconvenience during construction works", and when I challenged them, she suggested I sue her. Bastard!

All of this only reinforces my firmly held belief that all work should be done under contract, to protect both client and contractor. If I was still doing the private driveways/patios, I wouldn't entertain anyone unwilling to sign a contract: I wasted too much time chasing late/non payers and nitpickers during the 1990s - one client in Rochdale withheld 12,800 quid until we returned to do the final checkover and sand top-up six weeks after completion. That represented 50% of the job's price, and meant I was, in effect, providing an interest-free loan to him for the period, and using my own few quid to pay wages and settle-up with my suppliers. That was the job that convinced me to insist on a basic contract for all projects valued at more than five grand.

Look at it this way: if the client is willing to sign a fair contract, you are both protected; if not, why not? And would you really want to work for them?

Posted: **Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:53 pm**

Dan's advice is good - with the suggestion Tony gave, recorded delivery. this is important.

Nine times out of 10 people pay up when faced with court action. You may want to ask your solicitor how much he'd charge to write the '10 day' letter - it's not necessary to get your solicitor to write, but some people feel it carries more weight.

Posted: **Wed Jun 29, 2005 6:00 pm**

Sorry guys. I should have mentioned about the recorded delivery bit. Very true

Solicitors can be good in some instances, as you say, but you cannot reclaim thier fees when it goes to court, and sometimes, you can end up paying them more than its worth.

Why cant we have a database of bad customers that we can all submit to, and use when quoting for work. Once these bad payers are known to everyone, no one will ever work for them again!

Posted: **Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:14 pm**

Thanks lads, looks like ill be going ahead with this advice then. im going around probably tommorow to collect my tools, etc. and i think my suppliers are taking the un-used materials away next week for a 20% re-stocking fee!! -hope i can make her pay for this.

Posted: **Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:46 pm**

Put it in writing!!!

Dear Customer,

we are most disappointed to find that, despite our previous conversations, you have still not settled your account for the work undertaken at your home. This being the case, we have no alternative but to refer this matter to out legal advisers and debt collection agents for them pursue as they see fit, and to add their costs and charges to the outstanding amount.

In the meantime, we will return to site at out earliest opportunity to remove all tools, and we have arranged for all loose materials to be removed by the original suppliers, which has incurred a collection and restocking charge that we will be obliged to pass on to yourself.

It saddens us that you have not able to meet your obligations and pay your debts, but, even at this late stage, if we were to receive full settlement of our invoice within 5 working days (ie: by Friday, July 8th) we would be happy to rescind the instruction to our legal advisors.

Yours in penury,

etc......

The Brew Cabin

Help! - Client not paying