Nice new driveway, but bad looking step - Nice new driveway, but bad looking step

[msh paving]

what that expert from the company has said is rubbish MSH

[eldy123]

ok ive got a summary from the block paving company
1) There is no overall image of the driveway, however it looks as though the fall is from left by garage to right by drain with cable in.
2) The blocks in front of the garage do look uneven & that there are some slithers, though the image is not a good one so cannot comment further.
3) The cable in the drain is a poor installation and would hinder any construction. This poor detail is the fault of the cable TV installer.
Though the drainage unit is the remit of the drainage provider, we can only assume the drainage as been installed to run flush into the Drain.
4) The path in front of the driveway is a local authority issue. We agree that it is not aesthetically pleasing. Had an edging been used, concrete would still be required for the haunch. The only way to have made it look better would be to take the blocks across the path to the kerb line which would have cost more, and would require permission from the local authority.
5) As advised by Mr ***, he had discussed with the contractor to block pave instead of flag pave the step. The step is part of the house and as such is not the responsibility of block paving company. We will say that the block paving has nibs on the side, therefore would require installing flush with an edging of their choice to conceal the nibs.
6) It is standard practice to lay blocks up to a house though the sand joint should be no wider than 2-5mm.

also had a chat with them. they cannot really comment on the step. Most likely when the installer dug down they may have found the step was part of foundation of house so then had to pave slab the step instead
got my appointment with the installer tomorrow.

[msh paving]

point 2, there is darts as we call them, totally unacceptable under all paving guide lines from interpave, if the inspector did not coment on this he need to understand it before writing reports
point 3, the contractor could have adjusted it with no issues at all
point 4 some ways correct but it could have a kerb fitted we do it all the time
point 5, very unlikly it part of foundation as it above the foundation leval, even if it is it could very easly be cut away, the contractor has done easy option
if they are in a installers program the standard of work is the issue not who made the aco drain its how the are positioned
very poor report and little to help you in the case of a shoddy job
withold the money till a outcome to sort it out and you are happy before paying
MSH



Edited By msh paving on 1466708447

[digerjones]

The concrete that the step sits on may be part of the house foundations, but I dowt it, any if it is or isn't removing it won't be detrimental to the house.
Good look for tomorrow.

[Tony McC]

They cannot comment on the aco drain as it does not belong to them.

Yet they are effectively recommending this contractor, allowing them to use their company's own valuable and respected brand name to win work, but then they won't stand by the contractor when he uses off-brand materials.

So what is the point of their recommendation?

This is a weakness with ALL these so-called 'approved schemes' - the manufacturer/supplier only approves their own materials, but the inference is that it is the contractor that is approved.

What about the bedding sand? Is that from the manufacturer/scheme organiser? The concrete? The jointing sand? What use is a partial approval, limited only to certain products, and why is this not made plain when the client is appointing the contractor?

The number of times where a scheme promoter has absolved itself of any responsibility on the grounds that the contractor was not exclusively using their own branded products is a growing concern. The clients are trusting these contractors because they see them endorsed by a well-known national brand and assume, rightly or wrongly, that with such a big name behind them, nothing can go wrong, and if it does, they are somehow 'assured' that it will be sorted.

If Only!

We all know of contractors belonging to Scheme A, winning work based on that membership, and then persuading the client to use materials from supplier B because they are cheaper. Is the client aware that they have no 'assurance' once that is done?

This is the inherent weakness of manufacturer backed approval schemes. Completely understandable, but the manufacturers will only look after their own interests.

What this trade needs is a truly independent trade body (one with actual clout and teeth) that certifies a contractor's skills regardless of whose materials are being used. We don't see Sparkies being qualified only when they are using, say, MK sockets and switches; brickies aren't obliged to use, say, Mastercrete rather than LaFarge cement to guarantee their workmanship; so why are paviors only 'approved' when using products from this or that manufacturer?

The skills used to lay paving from manufacturer A are identical to those used when laying product from manufacturer B. Having umpteen schemes, each partially approving certain aspects of the work is just a nonsense.

</end rant>

[eldy123]

Hi

So we had the meeting on Friday

He has agreed to rearrange the block paving near the front door area. When I mentioned the pieces of bricks should not be that small he agreed saying it should be no less than 1/3 of the brick size.

He will also tarmac the driveway entrance area but still wants to provide a quote for the step, materials only not labour.

He will not do anything with the cable at the gulley but will put a brick there to stop the gravel falling in, and also remove the sand and cement the space between house and block paving.

He also does not want to move the Aco drain away from the wall. He says that as it flows straight into the gulley this is fine. If it was to be moved 1 block down then there would be no way to direct the water there as water needs to move downwards and as it is a clay gulley it would be broken and there is some issue with plastic piping going to clay gulley.

I'll contact other registered installers to come over and ask them if the aco drain can be moved and then piping created underneath the block directing the water to the gulley.

[msh paving]

the cable if he dug down deep enough with the sub base and put the channel drain one block away for the house wall he could have cut a brick around it and made it neat
i dont think he is being reasonable with the step cost as it should be part and parcel of the job
as for it going direct into gully and the plastic pipe to clay connection, firstly i personally would not let it drop in top of gully like that, it should be conneted into drain line with a Y or T connection, for what little a plastic gully costs around £28ish and a length of pipe £22ish i would have replaced the lot and made a tidy job, he should know this himself
if he is a member of the manufactures scheme hes needs to be looked into
MSH



Edited By msh paving on 1466956602

[eldy123]

Thanks MSH

I guess he doesnt want to do it now as its major rework for him.

Would all the block paving bricks have to come off before he swaps the charcoal shoulder bricks and aco drain?

I imagine as the shoulder bricks and aco drain have been concreted down its unlikely they could be reused as they would be damaged?

Also I would imagine he would want to charge for labour as well for the replacing the clay gully with a plastic one? How long would it take for them to do this ?

His original quote stated following about the drainage "Install 6Lm of linear drainage units with outlet into existing down pipe outlet"

Are there other issues having the aco drain all the way along the house wall or is it purely aesthetics ?

[eldy123]

Ok, all done!










image url

[msh paving]

way better, the step is as it should be , why did he make so much fuss about doing it right, are you happy with it ? MSH

[williams]

This is why I now avoid these schemes, they take anyone who is willing to Pay on. I'm still on the Brett one but must cancel the direct debit.
Time and time again I hear how the other contractor is doing a good job because they are also registered and how I'm so expensive compared to them.

I've actually learnt I'm more credible off these schemes.

And sorry to say but that's a rough job, good for 50 a meter but for 95 that's not great.

[eldy123]

Well it seems I have one last problem.

Most of the blocks seem to have 'plucking' as described in another post.

Its really noticeable when the sun shines on the driveway as I can see all the chips.

Installer says its a natural feature of the aggregate. I've gone back to the manufacture with photos who have agreed it is actually a defect.

They say it is not a structural problem and do not advise replacing the blocks but are willing to provide a settlement payment on evidence of a receipt.

Installer has provided the receipt but it seems their first offer is just a refund of 50% off the price of the blocks the installer paid = £270!

I paid £4000 for the driveway and don't find this offer acceptable

What should I aim for ?

[lutonlagerlout]

I would aim for a happy life and ask for a second offer, if it doesnt improve take the £270 and move on
IMHO
LLL

[sy76uk]

I've read through the posts and I agree that the tradesman in question has tried to pull a fast one but...
Most customers when going into a builders merchants to pick out there paving and getting a price for it think that the job won't cost much more than that.
You firstly have the cost of the waste then the edgings, drainage, steps, agregates and that's before you get to the labour which is not a dirty word by the way.
If the installer made say £2000 from yor drive. Take away the tax and vat if applicable then take away the cost of his employees if applicable then divide the rest into the amount of time it took to install your drive.

Around 75% of the work on a driveway goes unseen.

[eldy123]

I'm going to ask the Manufacturer to get another installer to replace the existing block paving.

The existing blocks would have failed their QA and the installer should have checked the blocks before laying.

It can only be fair as the installer is registered with the manufacturer. I'll see how I get on with this.

Failing this i've still got £1000 withheld to be paid to the installer. If I'm not satisfied with the manufacturer response how much would be reasonable to withhold from the installer ?

Judging from the single invoice the the installer gave to the manufacture the total materials cost £898 inc VAT (of which £540 is the block paving)

The driveway was down over a 8 day period (mostly 2 employees onsite, slowed down due to rain) and additional 1 day spent by the owner for the faults to be rectified.

I'be already spoken to another installer who wants to charge £85 per meter for replacing. He says just replacing the block paving is still a lot of work!