Page 1 of 2
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:24 pm
by Ursa
Hi,
I was just wondering if someone here would be able to help us 
We had our backyard paved just 2 days ago.
Here you can flick through some photos I took today:
http://goo.gl/OQjKUY
This area is for light foot traffic only. There will be garden beds along the fence. 50cm bed for some flowers and 15cm gap for Mondo grass. We are going to remove the sand from those garden beds and replace it with soil + 5-8cm of mulch on top.
We've been told that
- there is no need to fill the gaps between the bricks with sand up to the surface (they put some sand and compacted it and they said it would be enough)
- there is no need to cement (put restraints) edges of paving as it's compacted and bricks won't move plus mulch in garden beds will hold the pavers (?)
We really want to trust our paving specialists but we are a bit confused and have doubts... We are not looking for a reason to criticize someone's work. We are just looking for a fair opinion from other professionals and their real life experience. How would you do it? Is our paving a good quality paving? Or should we ask the guys to come back and fix/finish it?
Thank you very much in advance
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:25 pm
by mike builder/landscaper
Looks as rough as bulls lugs to me, whoever laid that is not a paving specialist!!
Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:07 pm
by lutonlagerlout
I guess you are in Oz Ursa?
from a UK standpoint the workmanship is poor
all concrete block paving needs edge restraint
and the sand must be topped up
cowboys and liars IMHO
LLL
Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:42 pm
by mike builder/landscaper
I'll come and put it right, for the price of a plane ticket and B and B for a fortnite 
:laugh:
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:09 am
by lutonlagerlout
I know a plumber and roofer that have moved to perth in the last 3 years
but although they reckon you need a permit for everything the quality of workmanship is poor
sounds like the UK 30 years ago
LLL 
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:31 pm
by neatcon
Thats poor work alright, nice pavers if they had to have been laid to spec. Did you buy the materials or were they supplied by the "contractor"?
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:33 pm
by neatcon
Thats poor work alright, nice pavers if they had to have been laid to spec. Did you buy the materials or were they supplied by the "contractor"?
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:56 pm
by Ursa
lutonlagerlout, yes, unfortunately, you are absolutely right. And customers accept this work and never question it so those 'specialists' just keep doing their poor job
Neatcon, thank you for the feedback. We supplied the pavers. Usually, contractors won't purchase pavers for you so they don't hold responsibility for it. Brown (recycled) pavers we've got from a private seller. He was doing renovation and wanted to get rid of them. And cream pavers we bought brand new from our major bricks supplier: Midland Bricks https://www.midlandbrick.com.au/Shop....PY3303C
I really liked those 'vintage' brown bricks and I wanted to use them for a project. But before we even started I took a photo of them and sent it to Adam (our paving specialist) to ask if he is happy to work with this product (old bricks are exactly the same size as new ones) and if there can be any issues. He said it was all good.
Also, I drew the sketch of the bricks pattern and the garden beds and I asked Adam's opinion (if it's ok from construction point of view). He only changed the pattern of old bricks from 'stack bond' to 'stretcher bond' explaining that the old bricks vary in size so 'stretcher bond' will be a better option. And everything else will be no problem. So it was all discussed before they started the job.
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:27 pm
by Ursa
I decided to post an update for our unlucky situation if anyone is interested
The job was 'finished' on Saturday and the guys promised to come back on Tuesday to fix some small things and pave another small area (1.5 sq.m.). Next day we've noticed lots of yellowish/green stains on our new pavers. Mainly in the corner where they were using the saw. I have no idea what it is but it looks quite bad **you can see some of them on photos**
So we messaged Adam - no reply, then we called, messaged again, left a voice message, called again and again. Nothing. He didn't come on Tuesday and he switched his phone off. Yesterday (on Wednesday) we wrote him e-mail saying that we have some questions about his job and the job is not completed. And if he keeps hiding from us we will have to go to Consumer Protection Office. He replied within an hour.
It was a long letter but here are just some quotes from it:
"You are out of your league here Nick (Nick is my husband), all my work is above standard and your job is no exception...
... I only install the pavers, i dont make them. Gaps in pavers are purely a result of poor manufacture and there is nothing i can do about that. I made it look as best as it possibly could with the materials you chose. The pavers have inconsistencies and not the way they were installed. If you like you can raise the issue with Midland Brick who supplied your product but i can not be held accountable...
...All paving is not only within standard but exceptionally accurate and well above average installation...
...Not enough joint fill sand used.
We discussed this on the finishing day, i offered to bring more once i returned to carry out your additional work. And as a man of my word i would have returned to do exactly that. (He only agreed to bring more sand because I said I wasn't happy. Initially, he ensured me that it's exactly how it should be. There is no need to fill the gaps, but if I really want... Anyway, he never came back with that sand. )
... I really dont understand what your problem is with the job Nick. Are you one of those people that tries to scam small business owners into refunding money at the risk of bad publicity. I have never had a bad review in 15 years of brickpaving and my name is strong in the industry. I have bent over backwards to look after you guys on this job and you have really upset me by threatening me. I dont know what your game is but if you feel the need to lodge an official complaint then i cant stop you, however you are going to be told the same thing im telling you right now. I cant perform miracles, and as i had no part in choosing or recommending the pavers that you chose i can not be held accountable for your complaints.
I have done a great job with the product you supplied and thats the end of story. Im sorry if you have no idea about paving and the processes involved but i can assure you that i have done nothing wrong. You wont find any other brickpavers that think its a dodgy job and they will all tell you that your complaints are misrepresented and false. Your only reasonable complaint is with the manufacture of the product from Midland Brick. Good luck with that one."
??? ??? ???
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:30 pm
by Carberry
He probably had the right amount of sand to begin with, it just ended up around the hoppers :laugh:
1. Has to have a concrete edge restraint, whether it is foot traffic or lorries. It should be laid on concrete as well as haunched with, not just some left over mortar thrown down the side of it.
2. He is correct in that there is some variation in products but it is down to your skill as a paver to make it look good. A lot of minor inconsistencies you won't notice when it is topped up with sand, the major ones he will need to fix before topping up with sand. If I had to guess I would say he has probably just laid too many at a time without stopping to hit them with a maul and hasn't stepped back every now and then to make sure he isn't going off course.
3. Cracked blocks need pulled out and replaced.
4. Some of the cuts just look silly like in picture 7, 9,14 15. Rather than having silly wee cuts that are weak and look crap I would have taken a little bit off of a few blocks. The L cut around the post in picture 7 is really weak too, that will snap.
Being told:
- there is no need to fill the gaps between the bricks with sand up to the surface (they put some sand and compacted it and they said it would be enough)
- there is no need to cement (put restraints) edges of paving as it's compacted and bricks won't move plus mulch in garden beds will hold the pavers (?)
Raises huge red flags. That is basics of paving. Topping sand up costs so little, takes so little effort, makes it look a hell of a lot better and contributes significant structural strength that I can't see any reason not to do it or to try and get out of doing it. That makes me question what you can't see ie: the sub base, bedding layer, pipework etc
some further reading for you (and the "brickpaver")
Cutting notches
Edge Courses
Jointing
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:03 pm
by lutonlagerlout
basically he is a cowboy, does he think by being aggressive that you will back down?
its a poor installation end of
I dont know how much you paid a metre but it was too much
LLL
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:28 pm
by neatcon
I would be doing my utmost to get my money back and if that fails, I would make sure no one gets stung by this guy again, by no accounts let him repair the bad workmanship as he clearly hasnt clue what he is at.