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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:55 pm
by JonH
Hi all, first time paver, long time reader and all that 
I'm rebuilding our patio, extending it from 3x10m to 6x10m, new block paving (Bradstone Stonemaster).
I've built walls using engineering bricks and concrete blocks on the left, right, and half of the front edge, so 3.5 of the 4 edges will be against permanent. the remaining I'm planning to use bull kerbs or something similar.
My first question is regarding edge courses. I've been reading up on this site (using it as a bible actually!) but it's not clear if you have to have edging rows if you're against a permanent wall. Hope that makes sense?
I can see the benefit of using edging - it highlights the shape of the patio etc, but the mrs isn't keen on having an edge course with the type of paving we're using! Looking at http://www.pavingexpert.com/blocks2.htm it shows you're meant to concrete in the edge course. However can I just start laying the blocks down from the edge and away I go?
As an FYI the blocks I'm using are http://www.aggregate.com/bradsto....essions in grey. Looking at the pic it seems the edge course would be laid on the opposite axis to the rest of the patio - vertical vs horizontal if you like.
Sorry not good with the 'trade terms' as you can probably tell!
Any advice welcomed!
Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:36 am
by lutonlagerlout
if you are laying against a fixed point i.e. a house wall or retaining wall it isnt always necessary to concrete your edge course in first
just lay the sand wack then screed to levels
the reason that we sometimes do this is that it gives a start and a finish to the paving,and it makes it a lot easier to mark cuts
the main thing is to take a bit of time and get your screed spot on
cheers LLL
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:14 pm
by JonH
Thanks for that info, I think I'm going to concrete in as a precaution...
Next question, is the level of fall I should be using. I've searched the forums "fall 'and' patio" but not much comes up.
There's a table on http://www.pavingexpert.com/gradient_01.htm, but it's not clear to me what a couple of the items are...
1:60 I believe I should be using, but what does the line for 1:40 mean? I know I'll kick myself when you tell me...
Min fall for FW no WC?
Just want to make sure I put enough fall on.
My patio is about 9m x 5.5m...
Thanks!
Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:31 pm
by lutonlagerlout
you want about 1:60-70 fall
which over 5.5m is around 80mm or 3 inches in old money
LLL
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:10 pm
by JonH
Thanks again LLL... just seen the number of posts you've done on this site you must be some what of an expert
Final couple of questions (I hope!!)
1. I've built a wall either side (left and right of the house). Can't guarantee as it was my first wall that they're level so don't want to measure the fall based on them Am I right in saying that if I use the DPC of the house, and measure down from that on either side it SHOULD guarantee me the correct level for my edging layer? The existing Patio only has a fall away from the house as opposed to left to right as well, so I'll be doing the same.
2. I have a large area to cover - 10m x 5.5m max. As this is my first attempt I'll never do it all in a day. would you recommend ripping up the whole of the original patio (about 10m x 3m) and then adding sand and screed hopefully in a day, then the following days lay the blocks, or would it be ok to split it - rip up half the patio, screed and block that half, then do the next?
Weather's a big factor here though I guess unlike building the wall / rendering at least I can block pave if it's raining gently
Thanks again for the help... don't know what I'd do without this site!
Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:49 pm
by lutonlagerlout
I am just the tea boy jon :;):
if you start 2 course down from DPC then 5.5 m away you want to be 75-80mm down which is 3 course this can be achieved with a line or a long length of timber
or a laser level of course
personally i would screed the lot and then start laying
take your time getting the screed right and the blocks will almost lay themselves (i said almost)
no need for a cross fall on most patios
cheers LLL
Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:16 pm
by JonH
Thanks for that again LLL!
I've taken up the old patio today, done the edging course on 3 sides (excluding the house side) so am ready to start screeding from tomorrow...
Reading this site about varying depths of screed I understand it's trial and error, but (maybe) a stupid question is how do you set the screed bars? I can't see anywhere on the site that shows you yet...
I'm going to use the preferred method of doing a 1st pass with the wacker, then screed. however should you put the screed rail in the sand after you've wackered, and if so as it needs to be sat lower than the level of the sand, how do you get it to the level you need? would you just use a level at either end of the of the screed bar?
That probably makes no sense to you pros
Hope that makes sense
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:22 pm
by seanandruby
once you've gone over the sand once,place rails, then pull a line across from edge to edge, pull them tight, now measure down to the top of your rails and adjust height accordingly. Make sure under the bars are packed all the way along. Now remove lines temporarily, screed off and do a check of height by putting lines back, once your satisfied, start laying.