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Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:13 pm
by JOHN90671
Hi, I am replacing a tarmacadam driveway with Marshalls driveline 50 block paving. The contractor after digging a test hole in the tarmacadam said there is a concrete base underneath it, at a depth of 80mm. He said that because of this there is no need to put in a sub base, but is suggesting putting in a 30mm bed of sand on top of the concrete and laying the bricks on this.
The tarmacadam has been in place for several years with no sign of it giving way, which possibly suggests there is a good foundation underneath it.
Does anyone know if laying paving blocks as the contractor suggests will work ?
Thanks
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:24 pm
by Noony
not without drilling holes in the concrete base and filling with gravel, and this may still not be sufficent. Not the way to lay block paving, especially if you are spending good money on the project.
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 9:27 pm
by Pablo
Yes but he should either drill a lot of drainage holes in it or install a fin drain. Saturated sand over a solid base can act like a liquid and pump out when a car drives on it.
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:06 pm
by JOHN90671
Pablo and Noony, thanks for your posts, this is helpful. The driveway is about 9 meters long, sloping away from the house, there will be a linear drain at the bottom, feeding into an existing gully. Will this be sufficient to drain water from the driveway or should I be concerned that the water will not drain sufficiently and result in the sand under the paving becoming unstable ?
The contractor has not suggested drilling holes in the concrete, should I insist this is done or should the concrete ideally be removed and replaced with a proper sub base ?
Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:27 pm
by lutonlagerlout
basically he is trying to get out of breaking out the concrete,which will save him a lot of time and money
block paving in 99% of circumstances needs to be laid on compacted type 1 and grit sand
drilling the holes is feasible but is a waste of time
plus 80mm isnt enough concrete for vehicles unless it is reinforced
when i do drives i find all sorts under the existing,but if the quotation says remove 250mm from finished level ,then thats what we do
LLL
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:16 am
by Carberry
JOHN90671 wrote:Pablo and Noony, thanks for your posts, this is helpful. The driveway is about 9 meters long, sloping away from the house, there will be a linear drain at the bottom, feeding into an existing gully. Will this be sufficient to drain water from the driveway or should I be concerned that the water will not drain sufficiently and result in the sand under the paving becoming unstable ?
The contractor has not suggested drilling holes in the concrete, should I insist this is done or should the concrete ideally be removed and replaced with a proper sub base ?
I would be looking at other contractors.
He either doesn't know the correct methods for laying or he does know and he is trying to screw you over.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 2:03 pm
by dab49
Hi John, for what it's worth (I'm just joe public) I am in a simular situation to yours. My driveway is under construction at the moment,I also had a good solid existing driveway. When looking for contractors I had several variations in construction methods and costs.
I decided to bite the bullet and have all of the existing driveway dug out and back filled according to current British Standards. My train of thought was to get it right first time and pay once, I'm paying £75 per SQ M all in for Marshalls Tegular blocks with a granite setts for border and circle(if that helps any).
I also thought that if the contractor drilled multiple holes in the existing sub base than that would surely weaken it and the probability is they would'nt bother to either drill enough holes or if they did fill them in with the right materials(unless you stood over them)!.
good luck!!
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:25 pm
by lutonlagerlout
£75 per metre is well cheap for tegula
does that include all the drainage and VAT?
LLL ???
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:51 pm
by dab49
Hi LLL, this is an interesting point, my contractor informed me that other Marshall approved contractors charged £75 Per SQ M for standard blocks ( for Teg's they would increase the meaterage rate). Before I select any contractor I try to determine thier cost's to ensure that they cover all associated costs and make a decent profit (not extortionate,not good for my pocket!!but enough for them so everyones happy ).
I must say at this point that no suds are involved nor VAT on labour.What is interesting is that I negotiated my own price with a well known (not liked)national builders merchant and I got the tegs a couple of £ cheaper per m than the approved Marshalls contractor(whats that all about?)
To summarise; Area= 215 sq m cost for tegs and granite sets = £5886. That leaves £9+k on the job= fair price for job (I think as a novice).I would welcome any feed back as I am just a novice and like to learn from experience....
Dave
p.s I have seen Tegs on ebay and other sites selling for £45 per Sqm,so I guess it depends on what you pay for the product...
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:43 pm
by JOHN90671
Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to reply. It seems the best option is to remove the concrete and lay a proper sub base which is what I will get them to do. At the end of the day its not going to add a huge amount to the cost and hopefully will mean I will have no problems with the driveway in years to come.
By the way, this is an excellent site, pity there aren't more sites like this out there on other topics.
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 9:09 pm
by mickg
Dave who is paying for the skips, MOT, grit sand, cement, kiln dried sand, fuel, insurance, and diamond blades to name but the main items what go into a driveway, other products can be concrete edgings, block paving man hole covers and tarmac to make good the pavement all of which need paying for
it would be unfair to post block paving prices on an open forum as everyone will be paying different amounts per m2 depending on the quantity they use per month/year and it would cause a stampede into their local builder merchants the following day or everyone would be phoning Marshall's demanding better prices 
Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:12 pm
by lutonlagerlout
you are right of course mickg but i cant help thinking this guys is shooting himself
type 1 approx £1k
grit sand £500
diamond blades £140
petrol £50
wacker/roller?
terram £250
concrete?????
digger?
muckaway
insurance etc etc
I cant do tegula for less than £100 p/m so this fella is buying work
good luck to him
LLL
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:46 pm
by dab49
Hi guys, an update for total transparency;in particular to ensure customers who read this post do not get incorrect information with regards to costings for installing driveways.
Had a frank and open discussion with installer,he has just about made a wage on this installation and as LLL and MickG had stated tegs should be priced at a minimum of £100 per Sq M. (infact it should have been more than £100 per Sq M,as granite setts were used in the design) .
I must add that he has not approached me for any more money,it was me that instigated the discussion as I wanted to ensure that he was not losing any money. The good news is that due to where my property is sited and the size of the driveway, he has had quality enquiries from locals for additional work.
As always thanks for all your support....
Dave
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:44 pm
by mickg
thanks for posting a reply Dave as most people don't return once they have had their initial question answered
as soon as you start installing products what are not as fast to lay like a traditional block paving border detail is you have to charge accordingly otherwise you will catch a cold
could you post a photo of your new driveway ?
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:35 pm
by local patios and driveway
Tegula at £75 a meter? Why not? It would be a rock bottom price but its a large area