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Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:10 pm
by Craig2
I remember Marshalls used to sell this stuff at extortionate prices that would 'fix' the paving sand and when we used the stuff it turned out to be nothing more than PVA and then they asked you to water it down before use, it did work though and I said then the next time I would just use a watered down PVA solution, anyways some years later and the next time is here and I was wondering if anybody had any experience or advice on the application of a watered down PVA mix to wash over the drive and congeal the sand?
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:19 pm
by Craig2
just to add this isn't for one of my drives.... but a client has had there drive fitted by a Loon who laid tegs,stretcher bond on a steep drive with the lines running up and down hill!!
The client asked me why when everytime he sweeps the sand in does it all end up at the bottom of his drive after it rains...
[insert eyes to the sky and shake of head emoticon]
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:51 pm
by irishpaving
Just recommend that they have the drive sealed. Depending on how big the area is shouldn't cost that much if your aim is to solidify the sand.. Is it really worth the bother trying solutions that could lead to more trouble...
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:12 pm
by Craig2
no offence bud and i'm sure sealants have come on since I dabbled with them but I decided about 5 years ago never to 'seal' another concrete paver drive for as long as I live.
Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:27 pm
by irishpaving
Only mentioned it craig because i sealed a drive i done near the end of last year. It wasnt sealed for changing the look of the drive. It was sealed to solidify the sand because of the same problem as you mentioned. I used resiblock trade and put down 2 medium coats. Was finished in a few hours and sorted the problem out nicely. Still had half a drum leftover from 25ltr.. Was just an opinion :;):
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:37 am
by Noony
resiblock def the way to go in my opinion, used it on on a brick paved area with 5 to 6mm joints, sand still rock solid to this day. give them a ring they quite helpful as have lot of diff products.
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:15 am
by Craig2
no problem Irish Paving, I totaly understand that a resin based sealer will do the job it is just not for me, £7 for 5ltrs of Pva, watered down 5-1(?) and washed over the drive should do the trick nicely.
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:41 am
by Mikey_C
can't help but think that you are putting your reputation on the line here, surely the labour cost will make up the biggest part of the total cost and the customer may think it is better paying a bit more for the resin?
however, if you do go with the PVA take a photo before and after, post them and let us know how you get on.
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:36 am
by Tony McC
Keybond is the stuff you are thinking of, Craig.
We used it quite regularly with Tegs on residential driveways to reduce initial sand loss.
Posted: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:07 pm
by irishpaving
I can understand why you want to use the pva. Resiblock trade looks and smells pretty similar. I've just never attempted it. If it's a proper customer i wouldn't want a call in a few months asking me why does it look like my paving has dandrof.....
As mickey said if you can get some pics up.
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:04 am
by Craig2
well I have whirl awayed the drive for the customer and i'm going to give it a shot, I will try a test area first and let you know how I get on but I will let the driveway dry first before sanding and giving it a vibrate.
my issues with Sealing were always around the application, we tried all ways for over 2 years and results ranged from truly awful (Esp on a rumbled concrete paviour)to not so bad if you cleaned the area to a very high standard and then sprayed it but even then I found a certain lime green algae would form making the area deadly in the wet.
and then you have degredation on Driveways, not nice.
all in all it was just to irreversable for me, ok on your bog standars paviours for petrol stations but other than that I ran out of positives pretty quick when working with the stuff.
we tried all kinds of sealers and the best IMO was an impregnating sealer which left no difference to the actual product and left the customer questioning if it had actually been done!
since then I have developed my own dressings for stone/concrete products which have a lovely effect, non permanent and need re-applying every year :;): but they are not sand fixing.
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:12 pm
by cookiewales
Craig2 wrote:no problem Irish Paving, I totaly understand that a resin based sealer will do the job it is just not for me, £7 for 5ltrs of Pva, watered down 5-1(?) and washed over the drive should do the trick nicely.
you should not use pva looks like milk has been spill t when rains sbr would do the job ???
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 5:41 pm
by DNgroundworks
I do agree with cookie there, pva shouldnt be used its not up to the job, surely it would wear off in no time? SBR would be miles better but if it were me id use the proper stuff.
On the back of some drums of pva, it will say " do not use in damp conditions" a drive way will be damp most of the time i would of thought?
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:36 pm
by Craig2
this is better..
missed your post Tony but Yes Keybond was the stuff.
I'm not sure how the PVA would wear off though DN? it is only to act as coagulator for the sand,I would use the proper stuff too but I felt ripped off by Marshalls the last time I used Keybond.
I have only just been introduced to SBR Cookie but it seems to stain easily and perhaps it would leave a visible residue on the pavers.
the Marshalls Keybond smells and looks just like PVA,I am preety sure I chatted on here about it the last time I used it and the general consensus was it was just a PVA repackaged and charged from memory around £50 and then you are asked to water it down, again from memory 5-1 then you wash the whole area with it which is quite disconcerting to see your drive covered in whitewash but it dissipates quite quickly leaving a mild coagulation of the sand,stabilising it against Rain washing it away which is all we are looking for.
Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:04 pm
by ken
Ive used keybond myself a few times and never really rated it much use. As keybond has been around at least 15 years now, im sure if we could just water down standard pva glue and it provide the same affect we would know about it??? Or maybe not.