The Brew Cabin

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2009 1:00 pm**

Hi - this website is fantastic for us beginners. I am fed up of builders 'fibbing' to me as a woman and I only then find out when things go wrong.

I live in a 250 year old house with no dpc (and yes...quite a bit of damp). In addition 2 of the inner floors are lower than the external level by 10 cm. Previous owners have injected a dpc but it is not working...so we will get someone in to do this.

However, we need to replace the crazy paving around the house. We are at the bottom of a large hill so there is a lot of water that needs to be directed away from the house because it currently sits as puddles against the house. Part of the patio is the lowest part in the area and is constantly under water in the winter. The paving is laid up to the wall and in some places they have put a 5x5 cm ramp of concrete (presumably to stop splashback - but it just acts as a sponge taking water higher up the wall).

The soil is quite clay based.

A Marshall registered installer has suggested porous block paving up to the wall. This worries me as it seems that if the water is not directed away from the house it will just go straight into the ground right next to the house and then up into the wall with no DPC (as well as water conducting straight in where it is touching). Also because it is clay based soil and we are near the water table level surely the water won't drain away very effectively.

Is there a better way such as putting a channel or gravel next to the old walls? Perhaps we put impervious blocks down and then slope the water away from the house. Or perhaps we should be doing a much bigger solution that I have no idea about!! I looked at your excellent options of drains/channels on your website- would you suggest a particular one if there is no DPC (as they all seemed to have some DPC).

The guy is choosing the Priora system 'cos he does not have to worry about levels not being perfect and it causing puddles...but I do not know what the best solution is for such an old house in a very wet area on clay soil.

It is so easy to be patted on the head and told everything is fine (long plumber and electrician stories) so I would really appreciate finding out if this is the correct approach.
Thank you
Sarah

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:25 pm**

Permeable paving on a clay soil with a shallow water table is NEVER going to work and the eejit installer really ought to know this. In effect, he's claiming that he can resolve to ponding issue by draining into the ponding.

Water sits on the existing patio because the water table is high and there's nowhere for the water to go, so how on earth can draining to the water table (which is what CBPP does) improve the situation? I'm afraid that just because a contractor knows how to install permeable paving does not necessarily mean he understands how permeable paving works.

From the description you give, I'd suggest a linear channel against the house to help prevent water logging against the brickwork, and then paving laid with the aim of achieving a level at, or as close as possible to, 150mm lower than internal floor level, with drainage to a SW drain. For a patio area to the side or rear of the house, you won't need planning permission for this.

I'd strongly recommend getting another two contractors to take a look, as I can only go off the limited information you provide above. If your instinct tells you there's a whiff of bovine excrement in the air, then you;re probably right. Permeable paving is a wonderful thing, but it is NOT the solution to waterlogging.

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:43 pm**

hi sarah which part of the uk are you in tony is spot on with his sumary you just need a like minded person to look at your problem correctley cheers cookie

Posted: **Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:44 pm**

Tony, thanks for getting back to me so quickly...and what you say makes a lot of sense. I think you are right that I need to get some more people in and now I will study your website so that can recognise the odour of animal waste!

Cookie thanks for backing this up - we are based near Tunbridge Wells in Kent - is your company just based in Wales?
regards
Sarah

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:57 am**

hi sarah no not just in wales we travel anywhere for quality work.as your house is 250 years old. was it built as a house.even then they built not to let in water and damp.over the years the outside levels have been built up.they need reducing all around house.pave away from house and then pick up water not a big fan of aco drain butting up to house.unless all else fails due to age of your house contrete block paving would not be my first choice.reclamied stone or gravel and steps would be more in keeping.a few pictures would help. "dont let the cowboys in" were all here to help.cheers cookie

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:41 am**

A photo showing the problem area would give us the opportunity to give you the correct answer to your problem without having to visit your home

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2009 3:35 pm**

Hi Sarah - our first home was a small brick & flint cottage built in the mid 1800's. The whole thing was so damp the plaster was literally falling off the walls. After excavating round the whole house, and with new DPC, the results were brilliant. You could almost hear the building give a sigh of relief !!
As said photies would be good...
Best.
ps - hard to believe but we paid Â£3,000 for the 2 cottages in the early 70's, total gut job etc, but even so....

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:36 pm**

cookie is right,even the old builders knew about damp etc,its just what has been added in intervening decades that causes the problems
I always look at it like this
water goes downhill,and continues to do so until it meets a hole or a blockage,when it does,it goes in the hole or pools at the blockage
so either you need to reduce ground levels (relatively expensive)
or divert the water away (moderately expensive)

sorry there are no really cheap options to do it correctly
LLL

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2009 9:54 pm**

lutonlagerlout wrote:you need to reduce ground levels (relatively expensive)
LLL

don't understand - 2 good men & a pick - do it in a day.

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:13 pm**

suggers you remind me of a time 22 years ago the man himself the grey murphy turned up on site 6 am sat morning.asked me how much i was being paid when i said 13 pound yard 2 he then said how much do you lay in a day. his answer was i could get six men for that my answer to that as i walked away was but would they be able to do the job he shook his head and drove away :p

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:28 pm**

ha ha Cookie - fantastic fellas the irish - buying the Burton's suit with the wages on friday - work in it all week, then new suit on friday....
Brilliant blokes - used to join them for a serious drink - never remembered getting home. :laugh:

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:32 pm**

he he they were the days some fun to be had and more :p

makes me feel 21 again :p

Posted: **Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:45 pm**

I wish - just had teeth fixed @ total cost of Â£560.00
Specsavers - am told I've been driving illegally - long range glasses for driving & proper varifocal reading glasses - Â£175.00
Is the whole body going downhill ? - yes.

Posted: **Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:23 am**

Suggers wrote:
lutonlagerlout wrote:you need to reduce ground levels (relatively expensive)
LLL

don't understand - 2 good men & a pick - do it in a day.

its always easy from a keyboard suggers
me and my mate filled an 8 yd skip by hand today reducing levels,we reduced approx 350mm by 5M by 2.5M
the skip was Â£170 and our labour was Â£250 if we were to remove 350mm from right around the house you could extrapolate that
its shocking how thing add up

LOl and the burton suit,we called it "the kilburn suit" all the old subbies are gone now but they had some great names
"louis the greek" " the jocks" "the silver fox" " wisecrack" and last but not least "breezeblock" who froze to death after a heavy drinking session RIP
now its all suits and hse
LLL

Posted: **Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:05 am**

lutonlagerlout wrote:its always easy from a keyboard suggers

fair play - wasn't being facetious - lot of time for anybody involved in groundwork.
My mate's got serious drainage probs at his stable yard - (will post some photos in drainage) maybe we could get you over for your advice (paid) & combine with a pre-xmas drinky - ?
Unbelievable amount of water spilling down from the high above tarmaced lane into the yard.

The Brew Cabin

How to pave around old house with no dpc - How to pave around old house with no dpc