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Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:14 pm
by Hondajak
Hi new to all this. Have set out edgings and subbase for patio 3.2 x 4.2m, now ready to start to lay 45deg herr' bone pattern, but the missus has changed her mind and wants marshalls driveline 50 circle surrounded by herr'bone pattern. I had it all planned out originally with the basic pattern. but I dont know where to start now with regards to laying a screed and walking all over it.Any tips or a laying method for this would be greatful.
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:18 pm
by williams
you need to lay the main body of the patio in herringbone. then work out the centre and then lift out the herringbone bit by bit from the centre out while laying the circle pack as you go.
Thats how i do it anyway. Trying to lay herringbone around a circle would be a nightmare and it WILL go way out of line.
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:08 pm
by nick65
Marshalls have plenty of info on the laying of circles in there various brochures. Ive used the same method as Williams on some jobs that are of all the same block,but if the circle is of a different block then ive found it best to put the circle in first then block upto and around it. Screed off your cirlce area first,lay it then do the rest. As for keeping your lines straight, make sure you keep a string line or straight edge running along the line of your blocks over the circle and out the other side.That way you have a constant line to keep both sides in line.also if you turn yourself 45% then to the eye your laying at 90% again.Ive never had a problem doing them and they are one of my favorute jobs i like doing. Double and tripile check all your measurements before committing. Theres nothing worse than doing a drive\patio pattern and finding its 100mm more to one side than the other. Im much more of a doer than a teacher or advisor so you might find it best to check the main site for those extra details or wait for a more articulate response. As long as you have confidence in yourself and your method then you cant go wrong. best wishes to ya. Nick.
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:15 pm
by msh paving
as its your first job that would be the way to go laying the 45 pattern then lifting it to fit the circle,the only thing is you wont be able to lay whole thing as you wont have enough blocks,
so i would lay enough to get past circle area,find the centre,lay centre blocks the work back lifting and and laying circle,once circle is in carry on with the outside pattern,if you have any problems use a stringline to check straight lines that should make it easier for you,
i have just started laying 90 herringbone with a paving slab circle 3.3m dia. circle,we have laid it using string lines to get round it ,but thats a different subject 
Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 6:27 pm
by Dave_L
Gareth - welcome!
Have you had a decent looksee at the main site?
Regardless of laying pattern, the screeding practice remains the same
I suggest you make yourself a coffee or grab a few beers and read here - screeding/bedding layers
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:15 am
by Tony McC
This thread shows perfectly the different approaches used by different contractors to solve a particular problem. In a nutshell: circle first or last?
I don't think it's safe to say 'always first' or 'always last'. I think the job dictates which is the best approach.
On a larger irregularly-shaped project, it's often best to pave the whole area and then dry-lay the circle on top of the paving, shifting it this way or that until it looks right. I've worked on jobs where the circle position has been designed and its centre located with millimetre precision in CAD, only for it to look skewed or uneven on the ground. On driveway jobs, I usually recommend that you get the customer to view the circle(s) from an upstairs window, directing its final position to the lads on the ground as necessary.
However, with smaller geometrically regular areas, it's usually possible to determine the circle position mathematically beforehand, and to lay it first before piecing-in around it with the body blocks. This is probably the method I'd use on this small project as it's a doddle to define the exact centre of the rectangle and to use this as the centre of the circle.
Once the circle is in place, I'd set-up a string line along the exact centre of the rectangle's long axis, so that it passes over the centre of the circle and use this as a baseline for the 45° herringbone, so that, when it's all pieced-in and cut as necessary, the cut pieces along both long edges are pretty much equal. This will require the use of off-set baselines to continually check the alignment.
Finally, be aware that cutting-in a 45° (or 90°) herringbone around a circle can be a bit awkward. Here's a drawing I use in some of my training courses.......
Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:12 pm
by nick65
There you go Hondajak thats what i meant by a more articulate answer.
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:22 pm
by loudog
hi, am i being daft but what is the correct way to cut these blocks in, i would say the right hand side is correct.
Posted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:24 pm
by msh paving
You got it right hand side is the way to do it correctly MSH