The Brew Cabin

Posted: **Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:28 pm**

Hi chaps, this is my first post in Brew Cabin, but have been enjoying reading this amazing site on and off over a couple of years.
Have recently gone self-employed as a landscaper and there's plenty to learn, the latest challenge is that i've been asked to pave close up to a tree (about 15-20 year old, well established lime tree, which sits on a fenceline).

Obviously can't pave right up as compaction would knack the trees roots, therefore i came up an alternative which would look to use terram within a couple of metres of the tree, block pave over that (probably see if i can get some steel curved to a semi circle with a couple of spikes to anchor it, to use as a form to go around the stem of the tree and give something to lay out from).

Now don't want too many materials, have lifted some concrete slabs which will be re-layed and will bring in some stone for two new paved areas, gravel paths will be edged in brick or similar. So to avoid a dogs breakfast i'd like to use same materials to edge gravel path (in concrete haunching) as used in semi-circle a couple of metres out from tree.

Anyway that's the background, my question is, if i'm to use a permeable system do i need to use blocks which are expressly shown as permeable pavers, or can i get away with standard blocks? Is there anything like a tile spacer to help separate the blocks? Or are carpet stones suitably spaced to brush in coarser aggregate? (I guess having a semi circle makes life more difficult may have to go for something more square?)

Sorry for the lenth of the post, i hope the info is helpful.

Thanks fellas.

Posted: **Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:45 am**

There is a method of creating a permeable pavement using standard blocks with spacers but it's not easy to track down the spacers. Marshalls used to do them, but they have been off their menu since the mad rush for moulded permeable paving.

They are still used on the continent, but I'm not aware of any UK stockists. They'd be available to order, but you'd pay a hefty premium and it'd take at least a week to get them sent over.

Carpet Stones and other similar mesh-backed paving is ideal for low traffic permeable area. You need to be careful in your choice of jointing material, though, and in the sub-layers, otherwise it can clog quite quickly.

Regarding trees, I'd keep at least 500mm away from the trunk, and preferably more. You could use summat like EverEdge to form the steel edging retainer, and then infill around the tree with gravel.

Posted: **Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:02 pm**

Thanks Tony.
With regard to jointing material do i have any options other than a sized aggregate (eg 6mm)?

Could you provide any other general advice on permeable paving? (The pics i've seen in catalogues look rather strange and what little aggregate you can see seems to sit on tip of the channels rather than in them and so doesn't seem to be doing much.)

Thanks again.

Posted: **Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:15 pm**

Happy to report back that i've been able to talk the customer into having decking! Can't seem to upload photos, but was going to show sub-base of old patio and proximity of base of a beech tree which had succumbed to meripilus http://www.aie.org.uk/fungi_base/merip/aie_fungi_meripilus.html given the age of the patio and the story of the decline of the beech, there is a strong likelihood that it was compromised in laying previous patio.

The tree on site is a lime and I know that lime trees, like beech are fairly poor 'compartmentalisers' and can be badly affected by fungi, lime often falling victim to ustulina http://www.aie.org.uk/fungi_base/ustulina/aie_fungi_ustulina.html which is a 'butt rotter' so damage to roots is likely to increase susceptibility of the tree to this kind of attack.

Am really happy and relieved to have arrived at this outcome, it took a while getting here but it does make sense, i have been able to remove most of the old patio founds and will take steps to decompact the ground a bit to help the tree along.

Thanks for your advice Tony.

Posted: **Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:47 am**

Lime trees are a pain in the arse. They play host to swarms of aphids, whit literally dump sugary goo onto the ground below, where it goes black with algae and fungus as well as becoming a slippery as ice.

And if that wasn't bad enough, you're planning to use decking? OMG!!! (as my teenage daughter says)

Posted: **Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:55 pm**

Yup :p

I know, I've warned them, but it's the strong pull of sitting in the evening sun, looks like they'll be buying a canopy/shade to keep the worst of the honeydew off.

Posted: **Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:17 am**

Looks like I've missed the sale, but the spacers referred to by Tony are still available. page 150 of Marshalls commercial product selector 3, or on the link below.

http://www.marshalls.co.uk/select....Spacers

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:57 am**

long time, no see, david

WB

LLL

Posted: **Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:57 pm**

But who has them in stock, David?

I had a contractor after them before Christmas and he says he was told they'd been discontinued by the merchants, but could be 'special ordered' if a sufficient quantity was required. Naturally, he only needed a couple of hundred at most and his local stockist (member of one of the usual unhelpful nationals) said it wasn't worth their time, so he ordered them from Holland (Klapps, IIRC) and they arrived in the first parcel delivery after New Year.

The Brew Cabin

Block paving near tree