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Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:51 pm
by leathertan
hello, I,m after some advice.
i have looked at a job where the client wants their concrete drive taken up and replaced, as it turns out, so do the neighbours both sides, which takes the total m2 up to 350m2 as all neighbours use the main drive they will share the cost, and pay separately for their own drives, they are wanting to use tegula at moment.
nice size job, could get tricky with lots of customers but not a problem.
i realise the pp is in effect but is it necessary if all surface water kept in garden in storm drains and allowed to drain, also falling to beds and borders and still using the tegula in the same old way.
or do you now have to use permeable blocks with the suds and no pp.
i need some clarification as i have not done a drive since the change.i have suggested to the client to contact their local council.
whats the permeable blocks like to lay, any idea on costs ect..?
could always gravel...
Ta
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:32 am
by msh paving
in my are norfolk, we are just carring on regardless to new rules no one seams to be taking any notice round hear,not 1 contractor is using permable paving no merchant stocks it,if go go on the new rules it will add alot off cost to the job,im not saying break the law but no one seams to be following it 
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:22 am
by Tony McC
While many contractors (and a good number of local authorities) are turning a blind eye to the new regulations, I think it is a good idea to speak to the customer's LA just to see what their position is.
One aspect of the new rules that perhaps hasn't been fully explored is that each job will require a unique solution. It may be that the easiest option is to use CBPP, or to bite the bullet and pay for PP to drain onto the highway or into the sewers, but I suspect many of these larger area jobs will use a combination of solutions. Part of the overall area may drain to a rain garden, while another section relies on a gravel strip and a third is laid to CBPP.
Also, bear in mind that, with CBPP, there is a rough'n'ready rule that your can drain two square metres of conventional paving (ie: impermeable) to one square metre of permeable. Naturally, this assumes the sub-grade is playing ball with the permeability and is draining relatively freely, but on a project such as yours, it would in theory be possible to lay 240m² of 'normal' Tegula (other tumbled block pavers are available) and 120m² of Tegula Priora (other permeable block pavers are available).
When it comes to laying the blocks, the actual block laying is much as normal. The BIG difference is the aggregates. The sub-base can be unnerving when first used, as it has no fines and doesn't compact to the same degree as a Type 1/803 might, and the laying courses is exceptionally gritty, compacting much less than would a sand or finer grit. However, most experienced contractors very quickly come to terms with the new materials and rapidly adapt their working methods.
Costs are complicated because the depth of excavation is largely determined by the permeability of the sub-grade. With a free-draining sub-grade, you may need excavate to, say, 350mm (50/60 + 50 + 250) while on less cooperative substrates, it might need to be 500mm.
While your client is chatting with the LA, it would be a good idea to carry out a basic permeability test and determine the nature of the ground so that you can plan accordingly and price up with a degree of accuracy.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:22 pm
by nick65
350m2 shared between 3 properties means you can make a tidy profit whilst still giving the customers a good price. Some L.As are more on the ball than others, so for piece of mind its worth doing it right to avoid any future comeback for you or the clients.You'll probably find all the info you need on the main website to help you on your way.Plus it's a good learning process if this is your first time dealing with the new regs. Good luck Nick.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:25 pm
by dig dug dan
350m2 of existing concrete drives?
could be worth a crusher for a week? ???
one thing to be wary of is if the existing concrete is re-inforced. can be a pain to take up
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:51 pm
by williams
The trick i think is to tell the customer how it is regarding the new law and that it is basically up to them (which it is either way) it would be very unfair to not tell them and also imo foolish to just get on with it, you could price yourself out of the job if they dont care they will just get someone who gave them the options. No one seems to care.......
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:40 pm
by leathertan
hello again,
thanks for all the reponses, i have just spoken to one of the clients and they have had the LA out today and they do need
PP and have been given forms ect... anyone know how long that takes? and costs £150.
so if they are given permission do i carry on as normal with the normal blocks and method still install drainage to take surface water, its all i bit of a mess this permeable lark, there must be an enormous amount of people just ignoring it and are the normal suppliers not stocking this cant find any locally.
how long will take to crush 350m2 concrete?
thanks again, i just found the quantities calculator thats great, well useful, 
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:52 pm
by dig dug dan
how long will take to crush 350m2 concrete?
depends on a number of variables, such as output size etc.
the manufacturer reckons that on a 50mm setting, 3-5 tonnes an hour, hand loaded.
by the sounds of it, you have enough to crush for your subbase, so no need to buy any in. just a thought.
Edited By dig dug dan on 1231440752
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:05 pm
by Dave_L
Dan - "Hand Loaded"? :0
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:15 pm
by msh paving
hi dave, iv'e got a micro crusher same as dan's its just as easy to hand load minidigger jam's it up to easy..........but 350m is alot,iv'e just priced 150t hand load.......
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:20 pm
by dig dug dan
indeed msh. it is actually quicker by hand, and you don't get the fines going in, or soil, or jamming, or concrete dropping on the machine and controls.
The only time i load with a machine is if its all broken bricks.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:22 pm
by Dave_L
Sheesh! You guys deserve medals!
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:18 pm
by Mikey_C
using a crusher cross hired from Dan, me and me dad did 16 overloaded dumpy/"ton bags" in 7 hours and we had to walk round the 1.5T JCB to get the crusher, I just wasn't confident to use the digger and not drop stuff on the controls, it was a lot easier to clear blockages. I slept like a log that night mind
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:20 pm
by GB_Groundworks
there's a review of the new bav trak 09 contractor in this months Earthmovers magazine, comes out of it very well but i did notice they were hand loading it.
for 350 meters i'd be looking at getting the 025 3 ton model though, load with riddle bucket.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:06 pm
by centralcompactcrushers
Hi Leathertan. If you go down the crushing route, maybe we can help. Sounds like you will have around 100 tonnes to crush (depending on thickness). Our crushers will process around 10-15 tonnes per hour, and come complete with operator so all you have to do is load the hopper... our guy will look after the rest and ensure the job is completed as swiftly (and therefore cost effectively) as possible. And most importantly, we DO NOT use Red Rhino crushers............