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Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 10:43 am
by harveee
hi, can anyone pleae advise, ... two young irish guys turned up on my door and offered to re pave drive for me, they have a new van with K.M o connelly on the side and advertising boards stating block paving specialist with a mobile number.
I guessed they were tinkers but he seemed to know his stuff and promised I would be happy and did not need to pay till after. I decided to take a chance and said yes, he then said can i just measure up, [this was 5 pm monday] next thing i know he had half the driveway up !!!! and garden dug over.
there was no mention of cash , so i intend to try to pay by cheque [£2000]. There has been no contract offered to me to sign and he asked me to write on paper my address and price he quoted !!!! , they have dug down now about 3 inches and left all the soil on the public foot path totally blocking it over night !!! We are keeping a flower bed area in the centre and was told the edging does not need to be done here as no cars will be near it [ bull I guess] he has also said that the edging will be done with path edge concrete strips sunk and cemented, so can anyone tell me if this will be ok please, or must he put in concrete shoulder and haunch ??
If this drive lasts 3 months i will be shocked !!! but cant pull out now .... guess i might be able to get it checked before paying him... any advice please for a trusting idiot like me.
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 3:35 pm
by Tony McC
All the construction advice you need can be found on the main website. The number for Trading Standards can be found in the local phone book.
Why oh why oh why, if you suspected these eejits were tinkers, did you agree to them working for you? No decent contractor EVER cold calls for work. You're about to be ripped off! Call Trading Standards first thing in the morning.
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:03 pm
by dig dug dan
well tony I just got my sympathy Meter out, and I decided it must have broken, as it read zero.
Trading standards are a waste of space in these cases. The never prosecute the pikeys.
You will have to pay them unless you want trouble, and you will have to pay cash. The police wont want to know either.
I have yet to find anyone who has managed to fight off these kind off rip off merchants.
There really is one born every minute
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:51 am
by harveee
well thank you both for your sympathy !!!. I hoped you could have advised on the edge issue rather than say basically ....
" yer fooked " yep there is one born every minute Dan and its sad that when they politely ask for help they get "broken sympathy meters " .
I posted this firstly for a bit of advice and also to worn others who might be approached by them, as theres alot of people who could be persuaded.[ not just trusting fools like myself.]
Nice site, shame about certain members ehh Dan. your compassion is overwhelming.
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 1:00 pm
by Tony McC
As I said, advice on construction can be found on the main website. I've simply not got the time to type out all the information on edge courses that I've already made available, along with piccies, elsewhere on the site. I might have some sympathy with your plight, but not for your attutude!
Dan - I know what you mean about Trading Standards, but here in the Occupied Former Territories of South Lancashire, TS are having a bit of a go at the cowboys and tinkers. They have a 'hit squad' with representative from the Inland Revenue, The VAT, the dole office, the bobbies and the Vehicle Inspectorate, and they are making surprise visits to iffy tradesmen offering 'home improvements' throughout the county as a whole, and in Warrington in particular.
Being at the intersection of two motorways, Warrington has always been a popular port of call for the itinerants, and following a number of nowt-short-of-robberies that took place last year, this year, they've decided to make life as uncomfortable as possible for the cowboy fraternity, and word seems to be spreading that Warrington is not the best place to try the "we've some tarmac left over from a big job down the road" routine. In recent weeks, dodgy traders have had their vehicles impounded, and there are potential prosecutions for benefit fraud, VAT fraud and tax evasion.
Hopefully, other TS offices will follow this lead, but they have pretty limited budgets, and if it comes to a choice between checking out dodgy kebab shops that are giving everyone the squits, or chasing up an itinerant driveway painter/fly tipper, they have to follow the Public Health imperative. The only way to get TS offices to address the problems in their own area is to inundate them with complaints - if no-one complains, they will tell themselves that there isn't a problem.
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:00 pm
by dig dug dan
Thats great Tony. Could do with them round here. But I have still yet to hear of a pikey being prosecuted! They tend to move to another green field far, far away.
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:53 am
by harveee
MY ATTITUDE !!!!!! look to your selves
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:12 pm
by TarmacLady
Harvee, let's take a look at this...you admitted that you thought they were cowboys, but yet you hired them anyway (without a license or contract). You didn't read the website, which is what you were asked (quite civilly) to do. You're now upset that the cowboys will leave a dog's breakfast in your front yard, and angry at anyone who confirms that yes, they are likely cowboys, and yes, they'll likely leave a mess in your front yard.
You have been given options (call the trade standards board on them), but you didn't like that option.
Short of anyone showing up, giving the cowboys a black eye, then fixing your garden for no charge, what is it that you really want someone to do?
I don't know any of these gentlemen personally, only through the posts on the board, but if you read through the site you'll see that these are the good guys -- the guys who are on your side, who pay their taxes, do the work according to specifications, and make good on their work contracts. Had you hired one of them, you'd not have the situation you've gotten yourself into.
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:28 pm
by Paverman Dan
TarmacLady wrote:Harvee, let's take a look at this...you admitted that you thought they were cowboys, but yet you hired them anyway (without a license or contract). You didn't read the website, which is what you were asked (quite civilly) to do. You're now upset that the cowboys will leave a dog's breakfast in your front yard, and angry at anyone who confirms that yes, they are likely cowboys, and yes, they'll likely leave a mess in your front yard.
You have been given options (call the trade standards board on them), but you didn't like that option.
Short of anyone showing up, giving the cowboys a black eye, then fixing your garden for no charge, what is it that you really want someone to do?
I don't know any of these gentlemen personally, only through the posts on the board, but if you read through the site you'll see that these are the good guys -- the guys who are on your side, who pay their taxes, do the work according to specifications, and make good on their work contracts. Had you hired one of them, you'd not have the situation you've gotten yourself into.
I kinda sympathize with harvees reaction, I remember when I first bought my fish tank and asked a few questions on an aquatic board, and the next thing you know I got 20 responses telling me how I was torturing and killing these poor fish. 
Marine life aside, harvee, please understand that many of the contractors that post here spend a lot of time and money to build their reputations as legitimate businesspeople, only to have their revenues hurt and their professions sullied by homeowners cutting corners and hiring potential flim-flammers such as these.
So, if you come on here, and say, "sorry I didnt use any of you, I cheaped out and used a shoemaker, and now I want your free advice" . . . . well, we're gonna help the best we can, but don't expect anyone to pass out the hat either.
I do feel badly for your plight, I'm not familar with British laws, but it sounds like Tony's advice is your best option.
As for fear of retribution if you choose to withold payment from these gentlemen . . . now maybe you Brits will understand why we like our guns so much in America! 
Edited By Paverman Dan on 1121707927
Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:04 pm
by alan ditchfield
I have to agree with paverman Dan as all reputable tradsemen of any trade know only too well there is always some clown who can demolish your quote and deliver a sh*te result. The problem is that you do not know the result untill the job has been done, therefore it is important to get people who you trust and who have a good reputation in your area, not just the cheapest, it is not about price cheap or expensive it is all about reputation. Sorry i cannot give you advice on how to solve your problem as like said earlier in the post if you dont pay you will probably spark up more trouble than its worth these people dont give a shit and you sure wont see them again.
Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 9:56 am
by harveee
OK, this is getting out of hand, I came accross this site by accident and didnt know that alot of people who post are contractors, thought it was an open forum for advice, my apologies.
That was one of the reasons I put my post on here, so people could read what happened and spot the van [k.m oconnelly] , [also g.b driveways van by the way] as I know two people in my street asked for estimates. My other reason for posting was to get advice regarding the edge they were going to use, I did check the info on all aspects of block paving and found it an excellent source of advice but could not determine if sinking path edging would be ok.
I admit I took the cheap option and deserve everything I got, I.E --- an unfinished driveway with no cemented edges , sunken drain, terrible detailing, minimal hardcore, bad levels and worse of all...my wife in tears due to 7 of em turning up demanding their money when the job was not even finished, and my feeling of shame and embarressment at having to pay them off for half a shitty job [My wife would not let me call the police or trading standards as she is very worried about them returning later and doing damage to our house, cars or even us and our dog.]
So tarmac lady..take a look at this, I did read the website but could not find/understand the advice i needed, I am not angry at anyone who confirms that they are cowboys..i am angry at Dans response...." broken sympathy meter and one born every minute" I didnt ask for sympathy or ridacule just advice. I am sorry for including Tony Mcc in that, his advice was good and I over reacted due to the stress we were under when I saw dans comment.
So I now have to put things right and will hire a decent contractor to do it, what I cant fix however is the worry my wife now has about them comming back and her feeling of violation [the father was quite nasty to her behind my back I later found out] .. My wife even suggested moving.
So I have learnt my lesson and did not mean to start an arguement on this excellent site [as with info gleemed from this site I was able to watch them and make sure they did a few thing right.]
Thank you to all the other people who posted advice and support, some times people take the cheap option because they are trusting fools and not tight gits who wont pay for quality work, sorry if I offended anyone but we have had a nightmare of a week.
Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:10 am
by mouldmaker
I can sympathise with Harvee totally.
My aged mother fell prey to door-to-door tree surgeons who started the job, made a big mess of her Leylandii, then told her it would cost 3 times as much to finish it.
Going toe to toe with the boss while his mate revs a chainsaw behind you isn't a fun way to spend an afternoon. It was only when they realised that (a) I wasn't going to let them finish the job and (b) I was happy to stand and shout all night rather than part with a penny (yes, pig ignorant and obstinate!) that they packed up and left.
Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 1:52 pm
by moira
I also wanted to let harvey know that i also do sypathise, a few years ago when (my father was alive) he was charged £2,000 just to have his grass cut. luckily i found out this on the second day of their arrival and they had only managed to glean £200 from my father. But the main point of leaving a message on this is - the police did want to know. They were there fully supportive and behind us and we heard no more.
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:42 am
by simeonronacrete
What a very sad story. Sympathy all round. Hope this episode is quickly forgotten by Harveee and famliy and that it serves as a salutory lesson to those who are tempted by the "cash job, no VAT, got half a lorry load of black on the back of the llorry if you want your drive done mate" merchants.
Sadly, there's no short cuts.
"It's unwise to pay too much, but it is worse to pay too little.
When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that is all.
When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.
The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest quote, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."
JOHN RUSKIN (1819 - 1900)
Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 4:12 pm
by InfAddict
Great quote Simeon. I'll use that in the future.
Harveee, you have my sympathy - must be a horrible situation to be in.
