Hi
I have just purchased some tegula paving and would like to ask the question on how much tumbling I should expect on the product and when could it be said that the paving is defect.
Example many corners appear to be chipped more than they should.
Sorry I do not own a digital camara but would apprecaite any comments or experience on the matter before I speak to my local builders merchant. Who will say I am being to particular Im sure.
Many thanks for your anticipated help on the matter.
Tumbled pavers - How much should they be tumbled
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Paverman Dan
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:27 am
Chipped corners should not be cause for rejection for a truly tumbled paver.
The dilemna with tumbling pavers is that it is not only a random process, but that everyone has a different opinion and expectation of what a tumbled paver should be or look like.
For some, a paver is too antiqued. I can then take then take that same paver to someone else, and hear that it is not antiqued enough.
The red flag things to look for in a paver, in terms of quality, are excessive exposed aggregate, spalling, holes or detoriation on the face, and slumping, which is usually indicated when the top of the paver looks like it is "melting" on the sides. These can be red flags!
The dilemna with tumbling pavers is that it is not only a random process, but that everyone has a different opinion and expectation of what a tumbled paver should be or look like.
For some, a paver is too antiqued. I can then take then take that same paver to someone else, and hear that it is not antiqued enough.
The red flag things to look for in a paver, in terms of quality, are excessive exposed aggregate, spalling, holes or detoriation on the face, and slumping, which is usually indicated when the top of the paver looks like it is "melting" on the sides. These can be red flags!
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gaz
- Posts: 4
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- Location: england
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Tony McC
- Site Admin
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- Location: Warrington, People's Republic of South Lancashire
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Spalling is the technical term for 'chipping', but because concrete and stone 'chip' in a particular way that usually involves damage to or loss of an area bigger than that impacted, it's called spalling.
The big problem with many of the tumbling processes used that involve the rotating drum technique is that it's virtually impossible to regulate just how much damage (what the manufacturers refer to as "distressing") is done to individual blocks. Those manufacturers with a commitment to quality often have a couple of eagle-eyed operatives positioned on the production line where the blocks are aligned for packaging, and their whole day is spent plucking out blocks that they consider to be a bit too ropey. Now, what Manufacturer A considers to be too 'distressed', may be considered as perfectly fine by Manufacturer B, so, when you buy a tumbled block, it's not just the sizes, formats and colours that should be considered, but the degree of distressing that is inflicted on the blocks, and the only way to judge this is to look at full packs of blocks or to look at completed pavements.
As every contractor will tell you, when laying any brand of tumbled blocks, there always seems to be a number of blocks that are, in the block layer's opinion, too distressed to be be laid, and so they are thrown aside or possibly used as cuts, assuming the worst of the distressing can be cut off. If a batch of blocks is generating too many rejects, then the contractor will be complaining to the BM, and if the BM can be arsed, they might call in the manufacturer, who will send out a rep with the sole purpose of bullshitting the contractor into believing it's an exception and part of the process and nowt to do with them. Of course, the contractor has the ultimnate sanction in that they can start buying blocks from another manufacturer.
So, at the end of the day, you are more or less stuck with what you are given. It's very difficult for a contractor to complain that a batch of blocks is too distressed for their liking, so it's more or less impossible for a private buyer to be taken seriously when making such a complaint. Some manufacturers use different technique that can be fine-tuned to regulate the disteressing to a greater degree than is possible with the rotating drum, but almost every British and Irish manufacturer uses the drum, because it's cheap and effective.
If you feel that you are discarding more than 5% of the blocks, then it's worth mentioning it to the BM, but I wouldn't build up your hopes that it will ever come to anything.
The big problem with many of the tumbling processes used that involve the rotating drum technique is that it's virtually impossible to regulate just how much damage (what the manufacturers refer to as "distressing") is done to individual blocks. Those manufacturers with a commitment to quality often have a couple of eagle-eyed operatives positioned on the production line where the blocks are aligned for packaging, and their whole day is spent plucking out blocks that they consider to be a bit too ropey. Now, what Manufacturer A considers to be too 'distressed', may be considered as perfectly fine by Manufacturer B, so, when you buy a tumbled block, it's not just the sizes, formats and colours that should be considered, but the degree of distressing that is inflicted on the blocks, and the only way to judge this is to look at full packs of blocks or to look at completed pavements.
As every contractor will tell you, when laying any brand of tumbled blocks, there always seems to be a number of blocks that are, in the block layer's opinion, too distressed to be be laid, and so they are thrown aside or possibly used as cuts, assuming the worst of the distressing can be cut off. If a batch of blocks is generating too many rejects, then the contractor will be complaining to the BM, and if the BM can be arsed, they might call in the manufacturer, who will send out a rep with the sole purpose of bullshitting the contractor into believing it's an exception and part of the process and nowt to do with them. Of course, the contractor has the ultimnate sanction in that they can start buying blocks from another manufacturer.
So, at the end of the day, you are more or less stuck with what you are given. It's very difficult for a contractor to complain that a batch of blocks is too distressed for their liking, so it's more or less impossible for a private buyer to be taken seriously when making such a complaint. Some manufacturers use different technique that can be fine-tuned to regulate the disteressing to a greater degree than is possible with the rotating drum, but almost every British and Irish manufacturer uses the drum, because it's cheap and effective.
If you feel that you are discarding more than 5% of the blocks, then it's worth mentioning it to the BM, but I wouldn't build up your hopes that it will ever come to anything.
Site Agent - Pavingexpert
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gaz
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2004 3:44 pm
- Location: england
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Paverman Dan
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 5:27 am
Tony McC wrote:If a batch of blocks is generating too many rejects, then the contractor will be complaining to the BM, and if the BM can be arsed, they might call in the manufacturer, who will send out a rep with the sole purpose of bullshitting the contractor into believing it's an exception and part of the process and nowt to do with them. Of course, the contractor has the ultimnate sanction in that they can start buying blocks from another manufacturer.
Some manufacturers use different technique that can be fine-tuned to regulate the disteressing to a greater degree than is possible with the rotating drum, but almost every British and Irish manufacturer uses the drum, because it's cheap and effective.
Tony-
In lawsuit happy U.S., one errant comment from a manufacturers rep at a jobsite could result in hundred of thousands of dollars, maybe millions, in lawsuits.
Most of the complaints in the U.S. industry nowadays seem to be color matching and aggregate exposure. "Too much" antiquing is not that big of an issue here.
Edited By Paverman Dan on 1100453318