The Brew Cabin

Hi there fellow Forumites, my first time so please bear with me ;)

Please can anybody advise me how to achieve a random pattern in a narrow space? :confused:

I live in a small, stone backtoback terrace with only 1350mm between the house and the original, low stone wall. (I have just fenced in front of the wall.) To complicate matters further I live on a steep hill, so will have to step the patio by breaking it into lengths of 2300mm and 3070mm, with a pathway between which is 1210mm by 1600mm (as obviously no wall there).

At the side of the house it steps up again and is 3200mm long, going from 1600mm wide (where the wall stops) back to 2440mm wide - I have decked the car sized space behind it to overcome the levels problem and finished it off at an angle to give a bit of interest. :cheesy:

So my space is 9780mm long in total, and ranging from 1350mm to 2440mm wide.

I am on quite a tight budget but would like to do something in keeping with the stone of the house; I have painted the decking a dull (wishy-washy!) green and the fence ?Acorn Brown? so was thinking of something like the Marshalls Heritage Old Yorkstone or Calder Brown, but have spent hours on Visio and still don't have a pattern that fits.

To make matters even worse, I am trying to establish the reason for a damp cellar - at it's worst it has about an inch of water on the floor and it has damp walls. I had a guy round who put dye in the drains but couldn't find any leaks, so I've just lived with it, but I figure I should sort it out before laying a patio. The two small areas in front of the house are currently deep earth, with about 6 inches of gravel on top (don't blame me, previous owners!). Originally I think there would have been below street-level windows. I know the house had a chemical DPC thingy done before I moved in but so far I have cleared the gravel and can't find the holes - I can't see them from inside the cellar too. Should I persevere and dig up a couple of feet of earth to look for the source? What then? Can I re-fill? How do I ensure adequate drainage? (Most houses in the street have above pavement-level flags or concrete.)

Oh it's all too much for a helpless female! :biggrin:

Thanks in anticipation for all your help and suggestions.

Hi Bee,

Firstly, it's possible to create a random layout in such a narrow space, if you choose the right flags. I could do you a custom design, for a nominal fee - info@pavingexpert.com - :biggrin:

Alternatively, you are best using a CAD system, drawing the components to scale, and then playing about with them in a scaled drawing of the patio/path area. much as described on the Random Layouts page.

If your budget will stretch to it, have a look at Marshalls Chancery range. They are much more authentic looking, compared to their Heritage paving. Or you might like the Millstone from Stonemarket or even the Old Town from Bradstone.
Further, given you've such a tight area, I'd have a look at using something like the Tegula block pavings. Because they are relatively small units, they have the effect of making small spaces look bigger than they actually are, and a transverse (running across) pattern would prevent it all looking terribly narrow.

There's not much of a price difference between high-quality patio falgs and tumbled blocks when used on an area such as this, and the Tegs are much easier for a DIY'er to lay.

Secondly, your damp problem. If you are re-paving the likely leak area, it's worth pricing up a drainage composite, such as Terram 1BZ, which can be laid horizontally, beneath the new paving to prevent any surface water finding its way through the paving and into your cellar. However, you may well find that it's groundwater from elsewhere that's penetrating the walls, and so a vertical drainage composite or impermemable membrane might be a better option.

Have you done any trial holes?

Hi Tony

Thanks for your reply.

I do like the look of the Tegula blocks and thought they would be a good idea, but am (pleasantly) surprised you think they are easier for DIYers.

I'm going to visit a merchants and do a "touchy feely" test on some alternatives, as brochures only help so much. I also want to check the colours out.

My yard is currently lacking variety in shapes and heights - I have seen the info on Fan patterns and think this would look great in front of the decking, sort of disappearing under it. With 3200mm wide I think I could manage something.

(Hell I'm getting too ambitious I think! Before you know it I'll be building a Pergola for height.)

:biggrin:

I will educate myself regarding the damp problem, using your comments as a starter for ten.

I guess that I could do some trial holes if I knew what and where I should be doing!

:confused:

It's tricky choosing from what you see at a Merchants yard, as you can't really judge what the blocks look like once they're laid and have been in place for a few months. My dad was saying yesterday that, if you had to choose a block paving from a single brick sample, you'd never choose the Tegula as it looks rough and dusty and knackered, but once it's laid, and the rain has washed off the dust, it's one of my favourite blocks.

If you contact Marshalls, they'll tell you where you can see it locally in situ, as it were, which is a much better way to choose.

For a fan pattern, you really need a minimum area of approx 5m x 3m. Anything less looks unfinished, unless you use under-sized fans, and then the whole job looks bitty. The trick with small spaces is not to try and dop too much. Keep it simple and it makes the space look bigger than it actually is.

Trial holes - basically, as small a hole as you can manage going down tight against the wall(s) with the damp problem. You're looking for owt obvious, like crumbling or rotten brickwork, open joints, fissures or cracks etc, or any standing water. It's one of those tasks that is best judged by someone with lots of experience, I'm afraid, but you might[/] see something. At least it costs nowt! :)

Good Afternoon Tony,

This has now turned more into a Damp/drainage issue than a Paving issue, although hopefully it will progress to the latter again soon!

Now I've cleared the cellar out I've found the holes from the Damp Course Injections, and they are thankfully above ground level.

I've dug down the area outside where the cellar wall is dampest (it's currently damp to the touch and eye). The area round where a window has been blocked up is dry to touch, the soil around it looks quite dry too - this is exactly where the vent from the gas boiler is situated.

However close to that is a drain, as it's the kitchen wall, and the soil there is very wet. I daren't dig much more as there's gas pipes and all sorts around there! Do you recommend I get a professional to take a look (again)?

One more thing I wonder if you could advise me on? I have dug out the paperwork from when I bought the house in 1992, as I remembered I was assigned the guarantee for the DPC. Between it being done in 1984 and me buying the house, the contractor ceased trading, but the guarantees were assigned to another contractor. (What a coincidence though, both the Director and Company Secretary have exactly the same names in both companies) :) The original document mentions a 30 year guarantee, but surprise surprise I can't find the second company anywhere! Any ideas how I might find them, if they are operating under yet another name?

Just another thing I have realised, the person I bought the house from had the second company round in 1990 to check something out - I have a report saying they were satisfied the "moisture levels at ground floor level were minimal and related to condensation only". Now I'm wondering what prompted this inspection, as I've never had damp ABOVE ground level!

More or less settled on the Tegula BTW :biggrin:

Hi Bee,

with regard to the damp, is there any chance it could be the drain you mention that is leaking? If you add a drain-tracing dye to whatever empties into that drain, it would show up in the ground water if there was a problem with the pipework, such as a leaky collar, or a cracked pipe.

Tracing the old dpc company - they are/were notorious for allegedly going bust shortly after making a huge wedge of money, much like some of the PIC Contractors we have nowadays. Companies House is your best bet in tracking them down.

If the drain is definitely above suspicion, then it might be worth getting a "no-obligation" damp survey done and see if that turns up anything.

I'm sure you'll enjoy the Tegula - let me know how it goes. :~)