Hi guys.
Not sure if this is the done thing on this forum, but thought I'd introduce myself, and get something off my chest at the same time.
Nutshell: I'm a 34 year old, out of work medical biologist (long story), and sad as it may seem, I've always wanted to be a paviour. However, I basically do it as a hobby (which no doubt sounds even sadder). I'd love to do paving, or even hard landscaping, as a job, but have been ill for a number of years. Plus I don't know if anyone locally will take on a mid-30s, unwell apprentice, even though I live on a building site
Anyway, I started 'grafting' when I was a kid. My dad was born during the war, came from a different generation, where people had a wide range of things for themselves (he wasn't in building or landscaping, he was an engineer for London Underground). So he taught me various things - basic electrical installation, paving, bricklaying, woodworking, and so on. First laid paving when I was 12, when I was 14 I laid a decent patio by myself at my grandparents'. Only around a small area but I was pretty impressed with myself. And om passing on this stuff to the kids. Okay, they're only young, but the 7 year old loves it, and she makes a pretty good dry mix, and helped me bed some slate blocks. Done a good job as well.
Anyway, the rant...
We live on a new build estate (you can probably guess where this is heading), and the patio in the back garden - it's just awful. Bloody awful. I suspect it was done by the work experience kid. The cheap concrete slabs are butt jointed (badly), the base, if it can be called that, consists of a very thin spotting of what looks like kids' play sand, no edge course basically relying on cheap turf at the edge, and in places some of them have dropped nearly an inch compared to their neighbours. At some edges it wouldn't surprise my if someone had just taken a chisel to them to knock off the edges, the spalling is that bad.
Why is this? Is it a lack of skills in the industry, or it is that it's all done to be as cheaply as possible? Im certainly far from an expert, or even a professional, but even as a keen DIY bloke, I'd be embarrassed if it was my work. Just seems as if pride in work, and effort, are a lost trait.
welcome to the Brewcabin! Joe or is it Joel?
most of us see rubbish paving day in day out
I would be interested in seeing some of your efforts if you have any pics
really need to get my act together and post a few recent ones up
IIRC Aylesbury is pretty poor sub grade,not good for patios etc
Cheers for the welcome, and yeah it's Joel. Its definitely not great around here, the lawn says as much but where there's a will there's a way.
I'd have to speak to my parents about photos, only thing I have around here is our current garden, which we've just started work on (meaning myself and a 7 year old - she's surprisngly good at negociating pay and reminding me about it!)
We're laying some borders edging and 'stepping stones' - more like a hybrid stepping stone/crazy paving on the lawn - next week. I'll throw some photos up of that.
The patio will be next.
JoelHall wrote:Why is this? Is it a lack of skills in the industry, or it is that it's all done to be as cheaply as possible?
It's because there is no proper, effective, organised training for paving that follows a proper curriculum. We've allowed our trade to become de-skilled and de-valued and the trade bodies that should be fighting our corner are more concerned about organising Big Dinners where they can pat each other on the back, like a big, sad, mutual wankfest.
All too often, it's a job left to the labourers and they're told to regard it as 'experience building'.
best quote ever gaffer
I dont know anyone who has had formal paving training,its like the dark ages
our brickie apprentice has multiple thing he has to learn and do ,but paving? it might as well be voodoo
at least with this site the bar has been set high by the many skilled men who post their work on here and in the last 10 years it has shown me what is acceptable and what is bloody brilliant
cheers LLL
Hi i did mine way back in 1985 and 1986 on day release at college when i was an apprentice at the council .it was called city and guilds roadwork craft. .i could and should have carried on another four years that would have covered us for at the time highways inspector through to highways superintendent.i did nvq in about 2004 which to be honest was nothing compared to going to college for two years 9 amtill 7.30 pm once a week. Im now going to wrap up hopefully this year and go down the route of inspector .
The biggest problem with new builds is the paving is all on a metre rate often done by people who do not care how long it lasts as long as they get x amount of Metres laid a day no matter how piss poor they are laid
the official rate for our apprentice (brickie) is £3.30 per hour
which is terrible ,a massive disincentive
I pay him £6 an hour which for 17 is fair and pay rises linked to learning and proving himself
LLL
When i pull guys up on sub standard work you always get the cliche replies ie:- " i haven't got to live here, it's not my country, it's only a storm drain, or it's near enough so it's good enough. My answer to that is... it's not good enough because it's not near enough. This week i was told to backfill an area with several rest bend pop ups by a young "supervisor"( maybe 25 ) told him i need to concrete the bends first. His answer "we don't bother with that here." He also said "you not s'posed to have bends on foul are you." I kid you not he was serious. Yes i did over rule him and knocked up concrete to do bends. Serious lack of training in the industry. You wouldn't normally have an edge course on patio flags joel. The turf being uneven is probably down to differential settlement with uneven haunching, should of used sbr and do away with haunching altogether.
but where there's a will there's a way.