Help with young business

[Filthy Slab]

Hello Gents

Have been in business on my own now for a short while paving, groundworks, general construction etc.

Was wondering if there's any advice such as accreditations, approved installer registration schemes that are a must to join that have boosted incoming work that you've experienced?

Does having credit accounts with paving suppliers bring the cost down for materials compared to retail prices? It just seems other firms are able to do the work cheaper and I'm often left thinking "How are they making money?"

I'm currently a sole trader serving domestic clients at the moment and there's only me and a lad but want to start a limited company in April, up my public liability (is only for 1 million currently) and maybe register for VAT in an attempt to seem like a more serious company to potential commercial clients. Will these things help?

It has been effing hard work so far with nothing but ongoing expense in relation to buying tools and small plant etc.

If any of you have been in my shoes and can give some pointers I'd be most grateful

Thanks!

[lutonlagerlout]

some time bigger firms get better trade rates because they do more business with suppliers
if you do 20k a month with someone they will give you better rates than someone who spends £1000 a month

also reputation is all

I point blank refuse to bodge anything and over the years this has helped me long term (some short term pain from lost work though)

never buy work I.E. a sprat to catch a mackerel

and try not be be worried about talking big numbers to people

the biggest patio job I have priced was 28k if you say it quick it doesnt sound that bad
and he had it done
cheers LLL

[Filthy Slab]

some time bigger firms get better trade rates because they do more business with suppliers
if you do 20k a month with someone they will give you better rates than someone who spends £1000 a month

also reputation is all

I point blank refuse to bodge anything and over the years this has helped me long term (some short term pain from lost work though)

never buy work I.E. a sprat to catch a mackerel

and try not be be worried about talking big numbers to people

the biggest patio job I have priced was 28k if you say it quick it doesnt sound that bad
and he had it done
cheers LLL

Thank you Sir!

So you reckon its a good idea to stick with one or two suppliers to ensure more of my materials come from them to make sure more of the money I spend on materials goes through them as opposed to jumping around suppliers for the cheapest I can get things for? So far I rack up about £4000-8000 a month on materials.

I've probably only started this thread as December, January (and looking like February) have been quiet. I couldn't complain between March to November but could definitely do with some pearls of wisdom from seasoned veterans in the game.

It's scary out there when you take the plunge to go on your own - with kids and a wife who's not shy with the spending!

What about commercial work? Is it who you know? Are there grapevines I can tap into to quote/write tender bids for? I mean where do you come across this sort of work? I'm on checkatrade but do local authorities and bigger clients really search on these sorts of sites? If not where's the best area to put money into marketing?

Thanks again

[Filthy Slab]

some time bigger firms get better trade rates because they do more business with suppliers
if you do 20k a month with someone they will give you better rates than someone who spends £1000 a month

also reputation is all

I point blank refuse to bodge anything and over the years this has helped me long term (some short term pain from lost work though)

never buy work I.E. a sprat to catch a mackerel

and try not be be worried about talking big numbers to people

the biggest patio job I have priced was 28k if you say it quick it doesnt sound that bad
and he had it done
cheers LLL

£28,000! How many m2 was that?

[lemoncurd1702]

Don't sign up for VAT unless your hitting the turnover threshold which is around £80K.
I would imagine if your regularly spending £8k/month on materials then you've probably already exceeded the limit.

Commercial work. You will have to jump through all sorts of hoops to get in with councils or large construction firms. Most will insist on being with ConstuctionLine, Chas accreditation plus the cscs and worse. I honestly don't know why anybody bothers there is so much red tape involved.
And you will probably be kept waiting 60 plus days for your money.

At least with domestic the money is there on completion.

[michaelthegardener]

I do garden maintaince but when I started out I tried to make do with what I had so as to cut down with spending on tools do you need it all or do you just want it :p I did a large shrub reduction yesterday took a hour with about 1200 quids worth of kit would have taken 3 without it but for years I took the 3 hours and saved 1200 quid

The only commercial work ive ever got has been by chance myself but as I say my work I completely different to yours I can keep going back over and over again for years but that said ive heard of one driveway company round here that will call customers everynow and again when they are quiet to see if you want the drive power washed

[Dave_L]

I would warn you to be very wary of commercial work. As has been said, you'll have to jump through so many hoops to even get a look in and then you'll be sometimes struggling to get your money in a timely manner.

I'd stick with your private customers, they are the best to work for.

I agree, keep all your purchases to one main supplier but don't be afraid to shop around and get them to price-match.

[Filthy Slab]

Don't sign up for VAT unless your hitting the turnover threshold which is around £80K.
I would imagine if your regularly spending £8k/month on materials then you've probably already exceeded the limit.

Commercial work. You will have to jump through all sorts of hoops to get in with councils or large construction firms. Most will insist on being with ConstuctionLine, Chas accreditation plus the cscs and worse. I honestly don't know why anybody bothers there is so much red tape involved.
And you will probably be kept waiting 60 plus days for your money.

At least with domestic the money is there on completion.

I've only done 8k on materials a couple of times in the summer. The sad thing is I hardly charge any labour money. My invoice program doesn't say anything near 82k or whatever the threshold is.

It just seems that most people when you go to a quote either don't know what paving projects cost and therefore aren't so serious about having the work done or they haven't even got any money and are just taking advantage of the free quote. Things like checkatrade are probably a bad thing in the long run for the building/groundworks industry due to the increasing number of people joining; it just makes more and more competition hence bringing down the average pay in the future. Extremely counter-intuitive.

I've put out 28 quotes in January and not one has came back. I'm hoping that these potential customers are planning for spring or something.

On another note, is it a good idea to go limited and up public liability to £5,000,000?

[dig dug dan]

I would warn you to be very wary of commercial work. As has been said, you'll have to jump through so many hoops to even get a look in and then you'll be sometimes struggling to get your money in a timely manner.

I'd stick with your private customers, they are the best to work for.

I agree, keep all your purchases to one main supplier but don't be afraid to shop around and get them to price-match.

Agreed

I was asked to tender for a contract grass cutting In a churchyard.
They asked for method statements and risk assessments. The council I have contracts with dont ask for that!! I declined on that basis, plus they wanted the clippings collected and disposed of, which my tractor cannot do, , and there was no parking!
My accountant wants me to go limited as he says it will save me tax, but his fee doubles! It cant be that simple or everyone will do it!

[lemoncurd1702]

I would warn you to be very wary of commercial work. As has been said, you'll have to jump through so many hoops to even get a look in and then you'll be sometimes struggling to get your money in a timely manner.

I'd stick with your private customers, they are the best to work for.

I agree, keep all your purchases to one main supplier but don't be afraid to shop around and get them to price-match.

Agreed

I was asked to tender for a contract grass cutting In a churchyard.
They asked for method statements and risk assessments. The council I have contracts with dont ask for that!! I declined on that basis, plus they wanted the clippings collected and disposed of, which my tractor cannot do, , and there was no parking!
My accountant wants me to go limited as he says it will save me tax, but his fee doubles! It cant be that simple or everyone will do it!

Depends how much you earn. Up to £15k probably not worth it.
You get £10k tax free anyway or does that kick in next April. Anyway everything after your salary of £10k is company profit paid at 20% and possibly going to be reduced come next budget.

Also no NI. Speak to your accountant about that as sometimes it's worth paying some or lose out on some state pension in the future, if there still is one when you retire.

Mainly though, it's LIMITED liability if it all goes tits up :p

[lemoncurd1702]

Don't sign up for VAT unless your hitting the turnover threshold which is around £80K.
I would imagine if your regularly spending £8k/month on materials then you've probably already exceeded the limit.

Commercial work. You will have to jump through all sorts of hoops to get in with councils or large construction firms. Most will insist on being with ConstuctionLine, Chas accreditation plus the cscs and worse. I honestly don't know why anybody bothers there is so much red tape involved.
And you will probably be kept waiting 60 plus days for your money.

At least with domestic the money is there on completion.

I've only done 8k on materials a couple of times in the summer. The sad thing is I hardly charge any labour money. My invoice program doesn't say anything near 82k or whatever the threshold is.

It just seems that most people when you go to a quote either don't know what paving projects cost and therefore aren't so serious about having the work done or they haven't even got any money and are just taking advantage of the free quote. Things like checkatrade are probably a bad thing in the long run for the building/groundworks industry due to the increasing number of people joining; it just makes more and more competition hence bringing down the average pay in the future. Extremely counter-intuitive.

I've put out 28 quotes in January and not one has came back. I'm hoping that these potential customers are planning for spring or something.

On another note, is it a good idea to go limited and up public liability to £5,000,000?

28 quotes and no response, bloody hell I've got a better strike rate than that in the betting shop.

Do you chase those quotes up. I don't mean give them the hard sell, just ask for some feedback to find out where you're going wrong.

How the F&%$ do you get 28 leads in January anyway.
Please let me know the secret?
Actually no don't!
I couldn't cope with viewing that much work :p

[lutonlagerlout]

some time bigger firms get better trade rates because they do more business with suppliers
if you do 20k a month with someone they will give you better rates than someone who spends £1000 a month

also reputation is all

I point blank refuse to bodge anything and over the years this has helped me long term (some short term pain from lost work though)

never buy work I.E. a sprat to catch a mackerel

and try not be be worried about talking big numbers to people

the biggest patio job I have priced was 28k if you say it quick it doesnt sound that bad
and he had it done
cheers LLL

£28,000! How many m2 was that?

160 but multiple steps,walls and groundworks
LLL

[lutonlagerlout]

I have always worked on 3's with quotes

we aim to win 1/3 of jobs we price

1/3 are just messers looking for cheap cheap
1/3 are looking for comparison quotes
and 1/3 want you to do it

I try and avoid quoting unless it has come from recommendation

LLL

[rxbren]

Got bits and bobs but not done many quotes its all been work for previous people in day work which is good. Looked at two jobs today one is a fairly good chance and the other that was apparently a landscaping rework turned out to be the removal of 6 tiny bushes.
I've thought about checkatrade but cant bring myself to pay for a local company got it for free for the year as a trial.

[lutonlagerlout]

we all know jan is fairly quiet ,people are getting over xmas etc.
I try and tee things up so we keep going by looking after people through the year and then come january we are still flat out
the shitty weather is against us all right now but it was nice driving home at 4.45 tonight with a little daylight left
the corner has turned
LLL