The Brew Cabin

Posted: **Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:05 pm**

Are you or have you been an approved installer for any of the big production companies?

How did it affect your business?

Which of the companies give the best value service?

I'm thinking off becoming one but I'd like to hear your views and experiences before I do.

Thanks.

Posted: **Sun Feb 16, 2014 4:35 pm**

No takers? Is this a sore subject?

Posted: **Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:29 pm**

Oh, you'll get plenty of comment offline, but no member likes to go public with a genuine appraisal of any of the multitudinous schemes which now exist.

The problem is that too many contractors feel obligated to belong to one or more because some customers expect it and their competitors are already signed-up.

Some schemes can actually be beneficial, but with too many the vetting amounts to little more than 'have you got the membership fee'. Not all schemes are equal, and that's a growing problem for them all. The piss-taker schemes are undermining the worthwhile efforts made by the better policed schemes, and before long, the value of ALL of them is reduced.

It's a regular hobby horse of mine, so apologies if you've heard it all before: there should be ONE approved scheme, irrespective of manufacturer, one that is strictly vetted, with regular unannounced assessments undertaken by skilled contractors and not by salesbods. A scheme MUST have credibility, and as every manufacturer, distributor, importer and chancer sets up their own scheme, the need for such a strict body grows ever more urgent.

There are maybe 3, possibly 4, schemes for which I have any respect. The others are not worth the gum used to apply their stickers to your van.

Only you can decide whether they make economic sense for your business. I know top-notch contractors, some of them active Brew Cabin Irregulars, who refuse to be part of any existing scheme on the grounds that all the schemes are too partial, too lax in the standards imposed, and too expensive for what they provide, but others swear by them, and claim they generate most of their work through such-and-such a scheme. Certainly for those who work the schemes, play them to build networks of contacts and influence, use them to garner awards and rewards, they can be incredibly useful, but the sad truth is that for the overwhelming majority of contractors, they are a wasted opportunity because they fail to understand how to make the most of what's on offer.

Posted: **Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:29 pm**

I hear good and bad things about all of the installer schemes
marshalls has worked well for Mickg
bretts for Williams

personally I like to be able to offer a wide range of products without upsetting *head office*

i would rather generate leads through word of mouth TBH

LLL

Posted: **Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:46 pm**

Marshalls is the only one that I know of with a genuine guarantee, that is, one which protects the consumer even if the installation contractor is no longer operating.

But regardless of scheme as far as the consumer is concerned all approved contractors must be as good as the next one. Not so. This is where winning best patio, driveway etc differentiates you from the others.
The discerning consumer who wants peace of mind will take these factors into account. Unfortunately there are far to many who only look at the bottom line Â£....

Don't expect a sack load of leads with any of them.

I would also like, as Tony Mc says, to see one governing body (government endorsed) oversee such schemes. Hey maybe he could head it :O

To re-iterate they are of much use when dealing with the discerning consumer. Usually those who are prepared to invest a respectable sum on their project.

Personally, for me, it is well worth the register fee.

Posted: **Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:41 pm**

sorry, we are part of FMB masterbond scheme
we have to have 3 jobs fully inspected every 3 years
not a massive amount but i got the letter last week so they are on it
I believe marshalls offer a 10 years guarantee
LLL

Posted: **Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:10 pm**

In the past I was very sceptical about Approved Installer schemes. I was approached on many occasions to join the Marshalls Register. I always refused. I didn't see the point in handing over my hard earned money just to be on a list.

However, 3 years ago I applied and was accepted onto the Register. One of the best things I have done.

First and foremost, it is not just about the 'leads' - yes you get a few from time to time, but this is not what it is about.

I feel part of a family being on the Marshalls Register. I am regularly visited and contacted by my Regional Assessor and Installer Development Manager ( or whatever their new name is !!) My installations are inspected and assessed many times throughout the year. I am assured that this is the case with all Register Members.
I am also assured that many installers are given warnings and are kicked off the register if they fail to maintain standards.
I can call anyone from the whole Marshalls team for advice or help at any time.
We get a lot of help in promotion eg we get personalized brochures for handing out to clients. We have online profiles and the ability for customers to contact us via Marshalls website.

Then there are the Register Awards, which really encourage installers to design and create something special. With the overall winner getting a shiny new Pick Up truck

We have annual roadshows where we get to see all the latest products, we get to meet up with other installers and also all the Marshalls crew. There are also various member benefits at these roadshows - eg discounted tools

We often get exclusive access to new products before they are available to the public or merchants

We can get direct delivery , often as soon as next day if needed.

On top of all this, register members get points for every purchase of Marshalls products either from a BM or direct.
One point equals 1 pound. this soon mounts up

One last thing - We get to use some of the very best concrete and natural stone products available in the UK.

Although I am a Marshals register member, I am not bound to use their products exclusively. I choose to offer Marshalls products to my clients because I feel that they are the best products around.
If any of my clients want to use another companies products, then I will install whatever they want. I can only offer advice on what I consider to be the best.

I cannot offer any views on any other companies schemes, as I have no experience of these. But from what I hear Marshalls are the only manufacturer who continually inspect and assess their members on a regular basis.

Posted: **Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:14 pm**

Thanks you all very much for your replies. My Business is only a year old and I rely mainly on advertising at the minute to generate work so I think that by becoming an approved installer and putting that into my advertising might give potential clients the peace of mind they need for me to get the initial phone call which is what my business in in dire need of.

I looked into the Marshals register. It does sound like a good scheme. When I spoke to the rep over the phone he asked me to show him 6 jobs so I started listing jobs for him to look at. The problem was that I come from a commercial background and my work's scattered around the country so he told me to give him a ring when I have a handful of domestic jobs in my area under my belt. I have that now. The only problem I have with marshals is the cost of there materials. I've laid hundreds of thousands of m2 of marshals paviers. They're without question good quality but Â£2 per m2 more than an say an eaton or plaspave for a standard 200x100 is a bit much IMHO. Had far to many problems with bretts products to even consider there scheme.

I can see why the businesses who have already built up a good rep wouldn't really need the register's. TBH I'd rather not have the added monthly bill myself. Judging by what I've read a good one might help get my phone going. Thank's again.

Posted: **Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:28 pm**

I had a meeting with Paul Dennis from the Marshals register this morning. Real good bloke. He was very happy with my work and put me on the register after looking at 3 of my jobs.

I was also impressed by the level of support offered.

Fingers crossed this should help get my phone ringing.

Posted: **Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:12 pm**

I used to be on marshalls and then bradstone, a few years ago now. The area manager for marshalls pestered me on the phone all the time wanting to come and see what i was up to, i told him he couldnt quite a few times as me and the lads where subbing to a big firm at lancaster uni and he werent allowed on site to just wander round.....he didnt like that, final straw was when he left me a rude answer phone message whilst i was at the hospital waiting for me old me to come round from an op....i left the scheme after that. Probably an ok fella but it didnt work.

Bradstone was ok, the bloke that came out was fine, always there on the phone when needed, had two leads in two years from their assured scheme, and some remedial work to repair a botched job done by someone else. No problems with them apart from their website is absolutely useless, i couldnt navigate it nor could any potential customer....hence no leads. i left.

I also joined tobermore now i think about it, love their products, the mush that came out was ok, i gave him 6 addreses of jobs we had done locally and he went and viewed them all, met the client etc and was happy with our work. He then confirmed that i was going to be included on the list. Anyhow some time went by and my local competition who happen to be on the same list got annoyed with me advertising as a tobermore approved installer and rang this guy up that had come to see me, and his response was that he had never heard of me and i was definatley not included on the list......i was on their own bloody website!!

I wont be going on any more approved schemes, ill stick to my landscape architects and garden designers for my work thanks!

Posted: **Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:28 pm**

I'm not after leads from them. A job now and then would be nice but it's more about credibility for me. My portfolio for domestic work is vertually non existant and I have to rely heavily on advertising to get my phone going ATM.

Being an approved installer might help me get the initial phone call and give them the peace of mind to give me the work if they like the price I go in at.

Posted: **Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:08 am**

sy76uk wrote:I had a meeting with Paul Dennis from the Marshals register this morning. Real good bloke. He was very happy with my work and put me on the register after looking at 3 of my jobs.

I was also impressed by the level of support offered.

Fingers crossed this should help get my phone ringing.

paul is a top boyo get in all the local church mags try some blogs and vids on y tube

Posted: **Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:05 am**

Dan, I had a similar experience.
the marshalls guy was so rude and agressive, I gave up. Unless you had your head up their backside, it generates nothing but grief, and besides which, there is no supplier round here for marshalls anyway.
its nice to be able to offer any paving slab, rather than just one range too so the customer has better choice.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:15 am**

I don't think any of the manufacturer-sponsored schemes explicitly disapprove of using products from other suppliers, but there's some confusion amongst customers, and even some of those contractors with very little brains.

Imagine: a customer has employed the contractor because they are approved by PaveCo and have logos and stickers everywhere. They use BlockMakers product on the job, which doesn't work out quite as well as hoped, so the customer complains to PaveCo who, understandably from our point of view, simply laugh and offer no help at all. Grief for contractor.

And then there's the contractors who just don't get it. I went out to video the installation of some flagstones supplied by let's call them Flags'r'us. Flags'r'us have a specific installation method for their flagstones and it is that method I am there to video and document. However, the contractor doesn't want to lay them that way because, he says, he's a member of VeryBigPavingCo's accreditation scheme and they say it has to be done differently.

No amount of trying to explain that it doesn't matter what VeryBigPavingCo say because these flags come from Flags'r'us and the only way the warranty provided by Flags'r'us would be honoured is if the flags have been laid in accordance with *their* recommendation, not what another supplier says. Oh no! The contractor insists on sticking to the VeryBigPavingCo's methodology because they might kick him off the list if they were to find out he'd used a different method! FFS!!!

For me, it would be so much simpler if we had one, industry-wide accreditation scheme. I don't know of any other construction trade where installers are expected to belong to a gang, or even a number of gangs, controlled by the manufacturers. It makes no sense and benefits no-one other than the manufacturer.

Posted: **Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:21 am**

I agree boss, why dont you set one up?

The Brew Cabin

Approved installers