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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:54 pm
by mickavalon
I've just been took over to the Tobermore Factory in Northern Ireland, by the local Rep. They gave me my ticket to Belfast and Back, Taxi to ferry us about and a really interesting talk and walk around the plant. I'd thought it may have been a bit boring, but to be fair I actually enjoyed learning how some of the products we use are made. The Director David Henderson is really passionate about his company, and he did most of the talking and showed us about (there were 15 of us from all over the UK).
If you get the chance I'd recommend it. I know it's all part of the big sell but it's good to network, and also to see the potential the company has, although they need to get a product designer in to alter some of the colours they use, very bright, a bit to colourful for the UK market I'd say, but really well manufactured. I'd post some photos except me Phone suffered some kind of exception to flying that it still hasn't fully recovered from.( I dropped it running to board, as I was late due to being crap at understanding signs in Brum airport) 
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:00 pm
by Tony McC
They used to do a couple of factory visits each year, but I thought they'd more or less fizzled out after they closed down the Display Centre at Leyland, which was a real shame, as it was probably the best of its type in mainland Britain.
They used to be one of the most communicative companies in the trade but for the last couple of years, they've been almost as silent as Cemex (Wot? Cemex make paving? Who knew??)
Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:55 pm
by msh paving
My merchant is selling cemex 60mm paving blocks for £8.75m+vat, dont like cemex but the price is right
MSH 
Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 3:35 am
by Carberry
And I thought the art of repping was dead :laugh:
I spend £200k on gas a year and all I got was a bottle of famous grouse and a calendar :laugh:
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:53 am
by Nigel Walker
I have used Tobermore products for 8 years now. I was one of the first to use them in England and had a great relationship with them. 3 visits to Ireland, contractors evenings at Leyland, Go Karting at Warrington. Regular visits from top men as well as reps. Any problems were sorted out very quickly and efficiently. We got various freebies and lots of help and assistance. We were looked after very well
The way Tobermore started business in England was laughed at. Not using merchants, just supplying direct to contractors. This wont work they said. Well, it did work. Bloody well in fact. I got reduced prices as the middle man was cut out. They had a paving centre at Leyland and plans for more.
We were unofficial sales people for Tobermore. But as a contacactor we didnt mind this. I was using very good products at good rates with excellent back up. I was pushing Tobermore and over 8 years laid over 700 grands worth of their stuff
However, this all changed 2 years ago. Instead of direct sales to us contractors, we had to go through merchants to order and deliver. Prices went up, service went down. The quality of the product was still there, but without all the previous back up, help and assistance.
The merchants were reluctant to order what you needed unless it was full packs or full loads. Some merchants didnt want to stock it at all as it was an unknown product. Tobermore would not deliver to merchants unless it was a full 28 ton load. I was getting charged lots of extra costs and also a lot of extra hassle.
All contact with Tobermore stopped. I had to go through merchants with any problems which resulted in 10 phone calls and still no soloution !
I still use Tobermore products, but with a 15% price increase last January and a 10% increase this coming January plus lack of service and help, I imagine I will be using less Tobermore and more Marshalls this year.
Marshalls are now doing what Tobermore did 8 years ago. Direct contact with contractor. Direct delivery to site - sometimes within 24 hours. Regular visits, promotional help. Back up and more than anything - treating us contractors right. If we are happy, then we sell more - SIMPLE !
It is a great shame that Tobermore decided to change their way of supplying paving to England.
They have lost many of their dedicated contractors who use their product religiously. At the same time they lost a great sales team of us contractors who pushed Tobermores excellent products.
I will still use Tobermore as some of their range is far superior to other manufacturers. But price, service and back up will play a big factor in which products I will push this year.
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:01 am
by lutonlagerlout
a cautionary tale there nigel
I use marshalls more and more because of the reasons you have given
its all backable and backed up by decent customer service
the only thing that hacks me off is that merchants who are part of the same group" saint gobain"= gibbs and dandys and jewsons and who are 5 metres apart in luton can charge up to £10 a metre different on premium products
I like bretts alpha 60mm range for budget jobs but its difficult for us to compete with the bottom feeders ,so we rarely get those ones
i saw some lads doing a,at a guess 150metre drive yesterday
using tegs with jumpers but christ was the bedding course thick
75mm at a guess
oh dear
LLL
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 4:29 pm
by bobbi o
I've given up on Tobermore,as they seem to have abandoned us sweaty socks. their is one independent merchant "stocking" their product,except they only keep marshalls in stock and usually quote a min 5-7 day delivery time.
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:49 pm
by Carberry
bobbi o wrote:I've given up on Tobermore,as they seem to have abandoned us sweaty socks. their is one independent merchant "stocking" their product,except they only keep marshalls in stock and usually quote a min 5-7 day delivery time.
Thistle?
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:43 pm
by Pablo
I cannot fault Tobermore nothing about the service they provide me is anything less than excellent. I wouldn't mind a bit more by way of that treatment though Mick but I live close to the factory so probably no point trying to get my business when it's pretty much guaranteed anyway. Marshalls tried to establish over here but they were the same deal as what Nigel described you needed full load orders so could be waiting weeks for a delivery and no chance of any backup or small items etc it's too expensive sending trailers over the Irish sea unless the products got a buyer that's what killed Tobermore after the crash.
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:13 pm
by local patios and driveway
Never seen tobermore for sale in the south east. Its brett or marshalls really
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:37 am
by lutonlagerlout
same here Dan
LLL
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:20 am
by mickavalon
Pablo, it was a great day, except for the Grub they put on, must of spent all of a fiver at Iceland!! Still the man's struggling.Lol
I have had Tobermore, Bradstone and Marshalls reps knocking at the door in the last few weeks, but we lay mainly Stone, only probably do 6/8 drives a year, if that, and I struggle to recommend Concrete Paving when there's good quality affordable Stone about. I wonder if Steve(London Stone) wants to wine and dine a few of us...Hint Hint.
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:48 am
by Tony McC
Tobermore never had any intention of supplying block to anywhere south of Stoke. The economics of hauling concrete on the road means there's a cut-off point beyond which it's just not financially viable unless it's a big order of several thousand metres.
Nigel eloquently sums up the tale I've been hearing for the last couple of years. Basically: what went wrong? It's not for me to go into the minutiae of what happened, but the end result was a 180° turnaround of sales policy, and even though I had it all explained to me by the sales director over lunch one day, I just didn't share his enthusiasm, and I think he sensed it. In the words of the prophet, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and Tobermore was not broke; it just needed minor tinkering.
I had a good few years providing installation advice back-up to Tobermore and their customers, and what always impressed me was the fantastic relationship between the company and their contractors, or as Nigel points out, their unpaid sales force. I'd be asked to advise on specific problems, suggest laying techniques, write-up workarounds, and generally provide authoritative back-up to their incredibly loyal contractor customers.
That's all gone. All I hear nowadays from the British-based contractors is moaning. They don't do this; they won't supply that; no-one called me back; what's with the prices? It used to be nothing but praise, but now it's widespread disappointment and disaffection. Contractors who were giving 90% of their business to Tobermore are now doing less than 10%, if that. Slightly different in Ireland, but that the tale in Britain.
It's such a shame. There was genuine affection for the company and a desire to see them succeed, but that all disappeared once the insistence on selling through greedy merchants was imposed. That meant Tobermore were just the same as any other block manufacturer, and when you look at the fantastic support being offered by Marshalls, Brett and Bradstone, you begin to understand why previously loyal customers began to shop around.
As the modern parlance has it, #wastedopportunity 
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:00 am
by Nigel Walker
When I set up in 2001, I was using Marshalls as that was all the local BMs stocked. After a couple of bad experiences with their products and zero help from them, I discovered Tobermore through Tony at GLEE back in 2004. I was sceptical at first but tried them out and used them for next 8 years. As we have already said, fantastic products,service and support.
During this time Marshalls continued to try to woo me back without sucess. Tobermore was too good.
Until 2 years ago !. Then I signed up with Marshalls register, which I have avoided for years. I never believed in these schemes.
However, now I am converted. I have used Marshalls more and more lately and probably even more in future. I find the Register to be a very good thing and the relationship with the Marshalls guys and girls is great.
As Tony has said, why fix what aint broke.
Its Tobermores loss. Over the years I have met lots of the contractors who used Tobermores stuf and they all had high prasie. I wonder how many of them are still using Tobermore now.
Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:08 pm
by mickg
Tobermore now supply paving as far south as Devon, guys down there have been taken over to the factory too aiming at getting more contractors in the south to use their products
I have been ask twice in the last 10 years to join their register but declined the offer on both occasions