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Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:16 pm
by stephenm654
Hello. I am a long time reader first time poster. I am a self employed bricklayer and occasionally lay some patios, do a bit of drainage etc. and find this site and forum an excellent resource.
Any hoo i have been doing some work CIS and was wondering if the umbrella company charge(or "margin" as they so politely put it) is an allowable business expense? Or should it be added on to total amount deducted along with tax? The charges are deducted before tax. Hope i have made sense. Had a good scour of the web but cant find much about the subject. Many thanks for any thoughts and keep up the good work:-)
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:42 pm
by cookiewales
wellcome i started out as a bricklayer and look where it got me ??? 
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:36 pm
by lutonlagerlout
you really need to speak to an accountant
a decent one will get you loads back
my mate insists on doing his own accounts and gets around a 2 k rebate every year
I pay the accountant £600 he does all the hard stuff,plus his fees are tax deductible
LLL
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:09 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
i take it you are working for an agency and they pay your wages through a payroll company and charge you for that (how kind). i would try an stay away from umbrella if i was you its a very complexed way of paying tax. i was on it a few years ago when working for the carr with the ilion in it .
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:23 pm
by rab1
blue sky by any chance?, biggest con going.
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 6:59 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
yes rab it was and as you know owned by the carr with the ilion in it . a total con . shouldnt be allowed
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:15 pm
by rab1
they started taking on huge numbers of trainees at one point and binned them after 2yrs as the government stopped the payments after 2yrs. a giant merry go round, just not for the youngsters concerned.
we currently employ one and blue sky text him constantly, the latest was hand digger london.
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:29 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
i worked on a bypass for them . no one was happy at all with them . in the end the manager from the carr with the lion in it had to call a meeting . everyone was getting charged 20 quid from payroll company just to have wages done . every agency does it now . it shouldnt be allowed. guy from sky thatv was blue turned up in a porsche . that livened up the meeting .
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:49 pm
by stephenm654
Yeah it was agency work. I would rather be CIS direct with a contractor or on the books but this is the way they seem to like to do it up here(Inverness) nowadays. Maybe its the same everywhere? Was going to try self assessment but as advised will maybe look into an accountant.
Coincidently I applied for a job with the agency you are talking about building BT boxes for a whopping £9p/hr. I was hoping to do some negotiation if I got offered the job but sounds like it will fall on death ears.
Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:34 pm
by henpecked
You wont get direct with main contractor, the NI responsibility is taken over by the agency, hence the preference to use the useless tw4ts.
If they cannot prove your NI has been forfilled, they could be liable for £20k per employee IIRC
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:29 pm
by DNgroundworks
I work for multiple civils firms directly and they deduct CIS @ 20% out of the labour element of the invoice, that then can be offsett on your end of year return.
Ye get a good accountant ive been on my own now for 4/5 years and had a rebate every year 
Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:21 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
umbrella set up is totally different than c.i.s. its too hard to explain . when the guy from the payroll company came to our job , he even admitted it was just about legal .in easy terms you offset against your tax every week . i was getting a taxi to work and back everyday :;): ??? . c . i.s is much better. even working for an agency on c.i.s , they will charge you between 12 and 20pound just to do your wages .total con