Page 3 of 5
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:02 pm
by Ted
There are overlays that can be done...
So if you get a partial refund you could overlay it at a fraction of the cost of ripping it up and redoing it.
Overlays aren't common in this country but a good PIC contractor should be able to do an overlay.
I did one a few years ago where I designed and made my own mix.
It still looks good.
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:55 pm
by Ted
http://www.arbitrators.org/
Members here may help you too!
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:05 pm
by lutonlagerlout
i dont know much about PIC (ted is our resident expert) but what on earth made you go for that monotone black/grey colour? it looks like aberdeen
also you mention you had a garage built afterwards
how did the builders build this?
did they have skips and materials on the driveway?
just a thought
LLL
Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:09 pm
by LJU
Builders had nothing on the driveway at all, they used the front lawn for all materials mixing etc and cleaned up every day.
Wife chose the colour - not guilty!:D
Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:24 am
by dandjl
Reckon I used the same South Yorkshire contractor as LJU! - My driveway was ordered 7th July 2005 and after numerous postponements finally laid on 7th Feb 2006. By July a crack had developed along its length (construction cuts run across) for about 7 metres. Its about 2mm wide in the middle tapering off to hairline at each end.
After numerous phone calls the contractor finally called to inspect it on November 7th and said nothing can be done as that's the nature of concrete but within the next 2-3 weeks he would apply a further coat of seal which would minimise its appearance.
Nothing happened and as a result of numerous telephone calls he has made 10 similar unfulfilled promises.
Comments invited and any help greatly appreciated!
Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 12:30 pm
by LJU
dandjl I've sent you an email.
Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 7:09 pm
by Ted
http://www.pavingexpert.com/links06.htm
I would phone up some (ideally all) of the supply companies (PICS is a good one, Creative Impressions are quite big in the UK, Lafarge has credibility due to it being a blue chip) and ask to speak to a technical guy.
Explain you have a problem with a PIC installation and you want impartial advice as to whether your PIC is acceptable. Say you want to email some photos and a description of when the slab was laid, how much it cost etc. Say you will send any info the guy wants and you would like to know if in his professional view the slab has been laid according to best practice.
Don't name the contractor at this point. You probably don't know where the materials were purchased from (Creative Impressions or PICS most likely) but want a professional view as you are a member of the public and you feel a cowboy installer may have ripped you off.
You should hopefully find at least one or two Technical Managers at these firms and if they say it is a poor job you have some pretty damming evidence.
Also, you can post photos on here and on the US sites mentioned earlier in this thread. It all counts as evidence.
See if others share your concern.
If they do, go back to the contractor with the evidence and ask him what he is going to do about it.
So let's see the pictures of this cracked slab!
Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 4:17 pm
by Tony McC
Unfortunately, CI and PICS try not to get involved in giving comment on workmanship. It's a thankless task and one that has caused problems for them both in the past. Not sure about CI, but PICS (for whom I have more respect) pass on any such enquiries to a third party, who is not exactly cheap in what he does.
The problem for them both is that as they are the two major suppliers for the deco conc industry in the UK, there's a good chance that the contractor is a client of theirs, which destroys any impartiality in the eyes of a court. And if the contractor isn't a client, then he's trading with their competitor, so the contractor's legal bods can claim that they have a commercial interest in putting a negative spin on any work he may have undertaken.
I know from speaking with the guys at PICS that they reached a point where they took a conscious decision not to get involved in these disputes as they made nothing from it and just got lumbered with a big IBC of grief. If you did call them, they would probably pass you on to one of their freelance 'experts', but make sure you're sat down when they tell you how much they charge!
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:07 am
by dandjl
Thanks for your comments guys.
I'm certainly not keen on spending more money particularly as I have no confidence in this company putting things right even if found to be at fault. After all, I've had 10 promises of a reseal since July 06 so far with no result so it might be better to put it down to experience and just replace the entire driveway when it becomes necessary.
However this and the experience of others with similar posts don't cast a good light on the PIC industry as a whole. Might as well employ a traveller type who knocks on the door offering a load of "spare" tarmac!
I'll nip out and take some photos when the rain stops! Meanwhile, I would be happy to pass on the name of the company involved to safeguard anyone in this area who may be seeking a contractor.
Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:29 pm
by LJU
Finally one worse than mine!:p
Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:38 pm
by Ted
Perhaps you should try the other firms such as Lafarge and Elitecrete for their views on whether this is satisfactory and done with reasonable care and skill...???
PICS are a much better firm than CI but the two do rather have most of the market between them.
Someone at Lafarge or Elitecrete might back you up...
If the market for PIC products was not so monopolised by just two companies, it might help the long term future of the industry and ensure higher standards are adopted in the future.
Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:59 am
by Tony McC
While I agree with your sentiment, Ted, I believe that if the market for Deco Conc was not portrayed as a low skill, licence to print money with only 4 hours training, the market would be much better served.
A time-served concrete finisher spends three years learnbing his/her trade: how the bloody hell can anyone even begin to think they are "qualified" after watching a couple of videos and imprinting 2 square metres of concrete in one morning? While the manufacturers/suppliers rightly claim that they are not in business to police who can and who can't buy product or hire mats, certain companies are more than happy to take 300+ quid from what are, in effect, jobbing labourers and convince them that they are suddenly tradesmen.
What's really needed is a professional qualification and a trade body. The NVQ is still being developed, but it is coming along, or so I'm told, but a trade body still seems a long way off. 
However, the vast majority of problems with PIC stem from the outlandish claims made by installers during the sales pitch combined with the fact that, when PIC goes wrong, nothing short of jack-hammering it out and starting again will ever fix it. On saturday, I looked at yet another bollocks of a PIC driveway, where the eejit contractor had claimed that a couple of coats of sealant could somehow correct the poorly established levels that were causing ponding on the surface. How the bloody hell can a sealant correct a low spot?
There's no way the 4-hour training that is offered to PIC wannabes can cover intricacies such as setting-out, establishing falls, installation of drainage, and all the other skills that are required of a professional paving contractor. And anyone that believes a one-day couirse will make them into a tradesman should be shot with balls of sh-one-t!
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:14 am
by dandjl
Well, we're now into August and after several more calls to the installer which have brought several more promises nothing much has changed.
On 6th June I was promised that the driveway would be pressure washed the following day and resealed the day after. The guy arrived, pressure washed the drive, promised to return the following day but no-one has been seen since!
I guess its now time to name and shame. The company concerned are CONCRETE XPRESSIONS LTD., AIZLEWOOD MILL, NURSERY STREET, SHEFFIELD S3 8GG - the company director Darren Beck.
I have been advised by Companies House that this company was struck off for non-compliance of the Accounts and Annual Return and should not be trading as a limited company. They have asked for any evidence that the company is still trading as a limited company.
Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:39 am
by Ted
http://www.concretexpressions.com/
Thought it was this company till I spotted they are in Utah!
Get a friend to get a quote and see if Concrete Xpressions still send out a letter looking for new business on Ltd Co headed paper?
