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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:03 am
by lutonlagerlout
If the rate of infiltration excess that of the exfiltration, then the pavement (as a structure) surcharges until exfiltration > infiltration once again.
so in layman's terms ,if it rains heavy it floods anyway?
we are working in north luton at the minute near bramingham woods and water was coming out of the storm drain IC's,simply too much water at once for the system to handle.
am getting interested in this permeable paving now,may experiment on my own drive
LLL
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:09 pm
by David Sarti
Together with the BPCF my merry band of Marshallites installed a SUDS demonstration area for the BBC 'One Show' for a feature which is to be broadcast on the 26th of March at 1900hrs on BBC1; if anyone's interested in setting the VCR. It's not 'branded' in any way as the BBC have the ability to spot a logo or trade name at a hundred yards!
We installed conventional block paving, Marshalls Priora permeable paving, in-situ concrete (!) and tarmac.
We've started running permeable paving training days for installers on our Register and we've been booked-up through to August
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:06 pm
by Rich H
That'll be worth a watch.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:08 pm
by MRA
David Sarti wrote:Together with the BPCF my merry band of Marshallites installed a SUDS demonstration area for the BBC 'One Show' for a feature which is to be broadcast on the 26th of March at 1900hrs on BBC1; if anyone's interested in setting the VCR. It's not 'branded' in any way as the BBC have the ability to spot a logo or trade name at a hundred yards!
We installed conventional block paving, Marshalls Priora permeable paving, in-situ concrete (!) and tarmac.
We've started running permeable paving training days for installers on our Register and we've been booked-up through to August
As someone who will be training the Members with reference to SUDS (Sustainable Urban Drainage Systems), I'll second that!
There will most definately be voids in the marketplace for this type of paving. The dig is slightly deeper than a regular CBP installation (310mm) and does have some caveats attached (i.e. homes built before a specified date may not be suitable due to foundation type etc), but the benefits of this type of build using these materials will become more apparent on a wider scale in the near future.
After all, if Local Authorities specify permeable paving, having the knowledge and competance to install this can only be an advantage over other 'Landscapers / Pavers'. Remember, knowledge is power.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:14 pm
by jonnyaardvark
As concrete suppliers and PIC installers we have recently done trials on pervious concrete in our yard and as it says on the tin "when it rains it drains" whilst in its natural form its not beautiful
we have used acid stain on some bays which look ok and we are about to do 4 bays with intregal colour ..terracotta, buff,khaki and black
I can see this being a viable alternative for many commercial car parks etc and possibly in certain residential circumstances
I have done quite a lot of research and spoke to some installers in the states where its growing in popularity and ticks all the relevant green boxes and i can see a market for it over here in the future
The lads are very excited as we have a 700m2 roadway to do in Cheshire where we are going to do a 150mm pervious concrete slab on top of a 300mm clean stone subbase on geotextile ..
will let you know how we go on and post some pics
jonnyaardvark
www.perviousconcrete.co.uk
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:07 pm
by Tony McC
David Sarti wrote:We've started running permeable paving training days for installers on our Register and we've been booked-up through to August
Mmm. Meanwhile, the hapless HLTG are unable to fill 8 places for the training course in Gloucestershire on April 3rd, which comes as no surprise, because I spent most of last year haranguing them that their "promotion" of courses was pathetic, ineffective and bordering on non-existent. In fact, so pathetic that there have been no pavement construction courses since last August, and at the time of writing, even though we are already halfway through March, there are no plans for any pavement construction courses, other than the two permeable events, for this year!
As much as David and his Marshallettes deserve credit for providing the training, it really ought to be industry-wide and not reliant on an individual manufacturer. That was the role supposedly taken by the HLTG: so why are we still relying on the goodwill (and commercial acumen) of individual manufacturers?
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:07 pm
by simeonronacrete
We've just introduced the Ronadeck Resin Bound Surfacing System, which is very permeable and so will help meet the new regulations - be they well thought out, or otherwise.
And yes, it can be used for pedestrian paving and driveways and cars.
See here for more information.
Edited By simeonronacrete on 1205690879
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:11 pm
by williams
Hello all,am new here
Just read the link and the posted comments and am a little concerned.
I have a small up and coming company(or so i thought) and reading this has frankly made me panic a bit.
Is this really going to be implemented? If so how,if i had't read this then i wouldnt know let alone the thousands of no knowledge home owners.
So if i had a quote for a concrete drive to be replaced then i can just go ahead,dig it out and pave it. But if they want it extended then permission is needed?
Now once the jobs done how will anyone know what was or was't there previously?
What about patios? i assume its the same?
Another stupid law by our nice government!
Should i be pannicking,how can i get training? i already face stiff oposition from the local £40 per m for alpha mongrels who like thier 6" dig outs and 2" of crushed 
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:15 pm
by williams
simeonronacrete wrote:We've just introduced the Ronadeck Resin Bound Surfacing System, which is very permeable and so will help meet the new regulations - be they well thought out, or otherwise.
And yes, it can be used for pedestrian paving and driveways and cars.
See here for more information.
its sunday and i,ve had a long week but in your link it says it needs to be laid on concrete or tarmac. How does that allow water to drain through?
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:48 pm
by Tony McC
The truth of it is that none of us really know how it will be implemented because there's been no effective consultation with those running small one-gang businesses, even though they make up the vast majority of the trade.
I've been told that discussion have been held with Interpave, but they represent manufacturers, not contractors. Interlay, which is the only independent trade body haven't mentioned anything to me. Instead, we have uniformed politicians imposing policy without any regard for how it will impact upon the estimated 20,000 sole traders and partnerships out in the real world that make a living by installing patios, driveway and the like.
Will it be left to the discretion of the local authority? Will it be centrally enforced by DEFRA? You might think the twonks in Westminster would have the courtesy to inform those that are most directly affected by their well-intentioned but poorly-considered policies, but it seems not. I'm still trying to find out the how, the what, the where and the when, but no-one at DEFRA wants to talk to me.
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:07 pm
by williams
Tony McC wrote:The truth of it is that none of us really know how it will be implemented because there's been no effective consultation with those running small one-gang businesses, even though they make up the vast majority of the trade.
I've been told that discussion have been held with Interpave, but they represent manufacturers, not contractors. Interlay, which is the only independent trade body haven't mentioned anything to me. Instead, we have uniformed politicians imposing policy without any regard for how it will impact upon the estimated 20,000 sole traders and partnerships out in the real world that make a living by installing patios, driveway and the like.
Will it be left to the discretion of the local authority? Will it be centrally enforced by DEFRA? You might think the twonks in Westminster would have the courtesy to inform those that are most directly affected by their well-intentioned but poorly-considered policies, but it seems not. I'm still trying to find out the how, the what, the where and the when, but no-one at DEFRA wants to talk to me.
thanks for the reply Tony.
I fel we may be getting another one of these laws which makes more government jobs (read bought votes) that will never be policed. For example how many jobs have you seen where an aco drain for example is connected straight into a sewage chamber? Only on a new build will it ever be a problem when the building inspector comes to visit site.
I just looked on the interpave website and theres a lot of speil on there which quite frankly i dont understand :p .
No ones told me anyhting about permeable paving. I,ve recently been put on the Brett approved contractors register and they didnt mention anyhting to me about it.
It imo will be impossible to police and far to costly for the average customer who probably woudn't want paving which makes their drive look like a petrol forecort.
And like i mentioned how will they know what was there before and what wasn't (satelite images? )
Interpave mention 'water gardens' but these will only be useable on maybe a few drives and mainly patios. How many drives fall straight out onto the road or stragit back to the house?
I,ll ring Brett tomorrow and see if they have anything to say.
Also to add
where i mainly work its all clay, in the past i have attempted to put soakaways in some jobs and have dug down to well over ameter and guess what? its still clay so how will a suds system benefit these areas.
Good god can you imagine the cost for muck away and then the cost of filling it all back in again with aggregate ???
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:39 pm
by David Sarti
BBC Programme now scheduled for Wednesday April 2.
Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:18 pm
by williams
Phoned local council today-they didn't know what i was talking about
phoned Brett- was unsure on anything and the technical guy said i was the first to bring this to his attention.
phoned interlay- told me this will be getting implemented at the end of 08-basically if you are using permeable paving then no permission is required,if you can lose the water into a bed/french drain,soakaway then permission is not needed.
How on eart is this going to policed then? i assume the same way as your not meant to lose all a drives surface water onto a main road/pavement (erm have any of us seen that before) or how many times have you seen surface water going intoa sewer.
if this is policed then its going to make an already very competitive game even worse.
to put it bluntly i,m nervous about this
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:47 pm
by meany
Why dont local authority's specify permeable paving when house builders build new estates.That would cover the urbinisation of city's and new builds.Minimise run offs into local sewers. The workforce on newbuild sites have the knowledge and know how. It just seems to me another cack handed proposal by clown.
Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:54 pm
by meany
It wont be long before the powers that be will say "paperz pleese" when u get asked for your ID card.
