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Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:14 pm
by Forestboy1978
Well I guess I'll take that as a compliment...
The circle was all me and was the only one I have ever done. The large sandstone patio I documented the entire job on this site so you can check that and I have a video of making it and the concrete base for she shed and greenhouse. It was the 2nd patio I'd ever laid, after the the stone circle one. Luton will attest to it cos he supported me through it and gave loads of advice. The slate foundation was done slightly differently cos I had to build it into a dry stone wall and slightly adjust the wall to make the platform perpendicular to the house.
I also built this from scratch and put it on that sandstone patio. Hadn't done one before or since as it was a long process being, again, out of my comfort zone. But it's still in perfect condition.
https://www.dropbox.com/s....pg?dl=0
As you can see it's the same property a couple of years later.
I don't screw things up, I do my research and put in the time needed to get it done, even if it takes me longer but half the reason I haven't done any for a few years is cos I stress so much cos I'm working out of my comfort zone.
The reason for the different methods is cos I've done like 7 of them and am feeling for what I prefer. They've all been solid, just slightly different. I just honestly have the shittest memory but it has been 3 years ish since I worked with mortar... and again, I've always used dyes and such and different methods so I'm still tuning in on the best way. I'm now thinking of gunning the next ones in which will be different again, mainly cos last time I used a black dye and the worry of getting the colour the same working on different days and staining the porous stones drove me insane. I am a worrier.
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:21 pm
by sy76uk
Fair enough.
General rule of thumb is to put a 100mm foundation in an between 225 - 50mm mortar bed.
Mix for pointing is 3/1 sand cement.
The rest you should be fine with.
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:28 pm
by Forestboy1978
sy76uk wrote:Fair enough.
General rule of thumb is to put a 100mm foundation in an between 225 - 50mm mortar bed.
Mix for pointing is 3/1 sand cement.
The rest you should be fine with.
Thanks.
Yeah I'm looking into adding SBR to the pointing mix now cos I'd never heard of it before and it makes sense. I only used it on the back of the stones before. Working out if it works as a plasticiser in it's own right too or add plasticiser as well as the SBR to the joint mix.
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:43 pm
by Forestboy1978
BTW that sandstone patio had a 100mm base AND 100mm mortar. The photo doesn't show it well. It was a costly mistake but didn't breach min on DPC and maintained a 60:1 gradient. Dries immediately after the rain stops. It was a lot of unnecessary work. I do locationally screw up in that regard but I try to over engineer rather than under.
My biggest issue is drainage. I just don't get it. In principle I do, it's quite elementary but then people start talking about soakaway cells, again elementary, but my area is clay. Soak aways don't work in clay so what exactly is a person to do if there are no legal drainage options. Hence why I only will consider small patios.
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:48 pm
by lutonlagerlout
Hi forest
We just add around 100ml of SBR to every mix
I think we covered this before but before you dig or lay anything check all your levels and make sure you have the correct falls
around 1:60
I would go
100mm type one wacked
30-50mm of bedding mix ( i like wet but others like dry)
consider weatherpoint 365 for your jointing,smart finish and easy to install
I know what you mean about comfort zones,I had to hang 3 steel security doors last week
it all seemed so simple till the doors turned up pre hung and each one weighed 80kg
sorted it it the end but i was starting to panic
so levels,check levels and check again
cheers LLL 
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:52 pm
by Forestboy1978
I will! No doubt I will fret over levels for many hours. Got a good source of limestone locally so will prob use that as I prefer the way it er,, whacks.
Always a gentleman LLL
Cheers:)
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:06 pm
by DempseyLiverpool
Sbr works as a plasticiser so no need for anything else.
If you want coloured mortar and you are going to use a gun then use easipont or Larson.
If you want to make your own with no dye:
3 silver sand or plastering sand
1 cement + sbr
I use 1=15ltr and 1=5ltr buckets to measure. No worries don't even have to count to 3
Mix with paddle mixer to bricky mix, dampen joints, gun in and strike with jointer when ready.
Need at least 2 men tho, 3 if it's warm!! Easiest option would be weatherpoint 365 or similar.
Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:02 am
by Forestboy1978
Cheers for that info mate. I may try the easy point this time round just to get the job done a bit quicker.
Keep showing your work btw, I love it
Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 4:16 pm
by Forestboy1978
Turns out she just wants a rectangular 16 meter sandstone patio. No area for expression Not even any edging. Booring... I don't even want to do it. Even if I charge 120 per meter it's gonna be about 1k profit for 5-7 tons of digging and disposal by hand as I can't really justify the price of a digger.
Sheeet
Posted: Sat May 02, 2015 4:18 pm
by Forestboy1978
and the other one is massive so I've turned it down cos I just can't fit it into my maintenance stuff. The small one is a 30 years friend so I kind of have to do it grrr.
Posted: Sun May 03, 2015 7:53 am
by seanandruby
So rather than make a profit on 16 m2 you would rather do a job for " a long term friend grr"? As we all know from experience doing work for friends or families leads to a very low ( if any ) profit ??? :;):
Posted: Mon May 04, 2015 12:40 pm
by lutonlagerlout
FB a 16 m2 patio is only maybe 3-4 days work
a grand profit sounds good for that
or am I reading you wrong?
LLL
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 8:01 am
by seanandruby
As you say Forest the ground will swell ( ground heave ) in clay soil. If there has been trees there and removed, then the clay will soak up the water where as the trees would of done that. It can take months, or even a few years for it to settle down enough to work on. A job i am on currently, with the show houses, the slabs have been lifted and re-laid 3 times in the past few years. It can also cause walls to fail.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:42 pm
by Forestboy1978
First time I've been able to log on for a while. Keeps saying you are not permitted to use the boards.
Luton... 3 or 4 days? U must be joking? I'm as fit as a fiddle and no way can I do it in 4 days. 4 truck loads to the pitts levelling compacting laying and pointing in 4 days on my own??
Sean no trees removed in recent times. There is grass there currently. 4" of limestone and 60mm bed should handle a little water induced swelling and frost heave no? I was planning on rotavating and removing then compacting the mud/ clay then adding membrane followed by sub.
Dunno Ive gotta tell her now if I don't want to do it. Biggest problem is edging now may be required and I don't know how to price it in. If I was gonna add this as a service then it'd b worth it but I'm not cos I just don't need/ want to. I've got my services nicely worked out and this just opens up a whole new area of messing around and plant requirements not to mention a trailer which I also can't store or afford.
Posted: Tue May 05, 2015 4:55 pm
by Forestboy1978
I've said no. I don't feel confident enough, my back can do without it and I've got plenty of work.
