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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:19 pm
by Ansi
Now given the partisan nature of the audience who aren't even prepared to read is it worth putting up better photos.
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:22 pm
by Ansi
Carberry wrote:£100 per square metre is fair for indian sandstone.
I said in excess.
If that is the case though, hwy does this website (the forum on which you are using) say differently.
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:28 pm
by Carberry
Ansi wrote:Carberry wrote:£100 per square metre is fair for indian sandstone.
I said in excess.
If that is the case though, hwy does this website (the forum on which you are using) say differently.
You come on this forum asking for help then insult everyone because you don't like the answer you receive?
There are other factors to consider, you can get nice sawn sandstone for £60 a square meter + vat, you can get cheaper sandstone for £15 + vat. Is it going to be pointed with easy point at £20 a bag covering roughly 7m2 or are is it going to be brush jointed or is it going to be pointed the old fashioned way?
Is access crap?
are you desperate for work or have too much on?
is the customer a pain in the ass?
Do you need to dig out and remove a lot of spoil because of crap ground conditions?
Are you in London and paying a premium?
There is more to it than just giving a flat price per square metre £100 is a rough guide line.
My guess is the website hasn't been updated for awhile.
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:46 pm
by Ansi
Carberry wrote:
You come on this forum asking for help then insult everyone because you don't like the answer you receive?
There are other factors to consider, you can get nice sawn sandstone for £60 a square meter + vat, you can get cheaper sandstone for £15 + vat. Is it going to be pointed with easy point at £20 a bag covering roughly 7m2 or are is it going to be brush jointed or is it going to be pointed the old fashioned way?
Is access crap?
are you desperate for work or have too much on?
is the customer a pain in the ass?
Do you need to dig out and remove a lot of spoil because of crap ground conditions?
Are you in London and paying a premium?
There is more to it than just giving a flat price per square metre £100 is a rough guide line.
My guess is the website hasn't been updated for awhile.
Where precisely have I done that. (If it's the "ASS"umption comment then I apologies if you've taken offence; it's just repetition of the American comment that you make an ass out of u and me for doing so). It was meant to lighjten the moment, clearly failed.
I've said all along that it's a generalisation. It's nothing to do with not liking an answer; if the answer were based in any truth or from the facts put before you then I could concede, but that isn't the case. You're making assumptions and there's no need to do it, the information is right in front of you.
I exercised what I thought was due dilligence, looking at this website for some time as an indication of pricing etc. I accept that all variables can't be covered butin the absence of any knowledge of this how else am I to decide?
To answer some of you questions though.
Work van parked 30cm fromwhere the path starts, 20 feet friom where the seating area is. Is that easy enough access?
Had to wait a month to start.
Yes, I'm probably a PITA (and I have broad enough shoulders to say that to most trades).
Completely clear area to start, old patio removed and reused under a shed (it's all there in the very first post).
Sheffield.
I can't think of a much easier job though of course I could be wrong there.
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:08 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
to be fair to the poster .there was no digging out on this job .indian stone 20 quid a metre all in. £240.60 quid for sand .30 cement. one roll of fabric 15quid . 10 quid pointing sand . tonne of type 1 35 quid . total=385 .
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:49 pm
by lutonlagerlout
EEK!
its all kicked off
see what happens when i go to work for a day 
the smiley faces are there for a reason fellas ,use them! :;):
£600 is too cheap
we charge approx £75 to dig out ,terram,stone up and lay the flags of choice,then point
if you add easipoint and say £20 per metre sandstone thats £100 per metre
to make a small job pay ,and i havent seen it it would be 2 days for 2 blokes,which costs me £500 add the £385 materials leaves me £315 profit out of which i pay diesel ,tax,insurance,office costs,CITB levy,corporation tax,
i feel sorry for you arsi whoops i mean ansi (freudian slip) :;):
you are right ,there are loads and loads of complete numpties out there
i would like to feel that most of the bloke here are conscientious about their work and obviously some have taken your comments to heart
its not the worst i have seen,but it falls way below a decent standard
all the best LLL
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:01 pm
by rab1
Agree with mr Lout. Why not as you haven't paid yet call your contractor back and explain what you want done to rectify the problems.
On the comments about Tradesmen etc, the client should always be realistic about their budget and expectations etc.
If you pay for a mini dont expect a roll royce. (NHS are the worst)
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:22 pm
by local patios and driveway
i think the problem here ansi, is that you ASSumed the contractor would be any good..
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:39 pm
by Ansi
lutonlagerlout wrote:EEK!
its all kicked off
see what happens when i go to work for a day
the smiley faces are there for a reason fellas ,use them! :;):
£600 is too cheap
we charge approx £75 to dig out ,terram,stone up and lay the flags of choice,then point
if you add easipoint and say £20 per metre sandstone thats £100 per metre
to make a small job pay ,and i havent seen it it would be 2 days for 2 blokes,which costs me £500 add the £385 materials leaves me £315 profit out of which i pay diesel ,tax,insurance,office costs,CITB levy,corporation tax,
i feel sorry for you arsi whoops i mean ansi (freudian slip) :;):
you are right ,there are loads and loads of complete numpties out there
i would like to feel that most of the bloke here are conscientious about their work and obviously some have taken your comments to heart
its not the worst i have seen,but it falls way below a decent standard
all the best LLL
The stone is about £12 a metre.
We cleared the site (probably about a tonne and half of earth). Disposal was easy - Freecycle.
No earth was moved, no stone was laid.
This website suggests that the price is about on the money; I have no yardstick and therefore I bow to greater knowledge than mine. Clearly though this website is out by a significant margin.
When you don't have the knowledge you research; clearly I put my faith in the wrong source.
If, as someone did, suggest I went for the cheapest price I'm going to take offence. I didn't and as fas as I'm concerned I exercised due dilligence. As the owner of business operating in one of the most capital intensive industries in the UK (a million pound machine is charged out at £250 per hour) it's really quite galling to be lectured to about the costs of running a business.
...and n and r aren't neighbours unless you use a Dvorak keyboard.
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:42 pm
by Ansi
local patios and driveways wrote:i think the problem here ansi, is that you ASSumed the contractor would be any good..
Presume would be more accurate I think. Assuming requires no proof.
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:57 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
ok just read the thread again.you have rockin slabs , stained slabs , bad pointing etc . you havent paid a penny so thats one relief , you can get the work sorted to a proper standard. a level most definataley been used during the laying . i can understand you not knowing what cheap is , lots of people dont know the cost of paving and get a shock when their new patio is going to cost them 3000 , when they thought it would be a grand (had one like that a cpl of months ago.).one thing i totally disagree with you on is how much you think a tradesman earns in a cpl of days . if i was to go and work paye for someone paving i would get between 25k and 40k depending whom i worked for . i'd say most quality pavers are charging 150 upwards a day doing private work per tradesman
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:04 pm
by cookiewales
London Stone Paving wrote:Well said Dan.
top man dan well said and written
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:09 pm
by pickwell paving
Come on everyone I thought the website was here to help people, its not the best of jobs but I've seen a lot worse, it is hard finding a decent tradesman in an area your not familiar with hence the reason I'm working 2 hours away on a job soon just for a patio and drive. For every decent tradesman out there, there are 10 cowboys it seems like every week we're pricing against somebody new who just happens to be a paving specialist with no experience what so ever. The industry is lacking a governing body sure you've got the manufacturers own schemes but you end up paying just to sell their products. Perhaps Ansi came on a little too strong but its understandable when he's just had a job done he's not happy with, but on the other side people like us lose out on work on a regular basis to people who really don't know what their doing but think they can make a few quid.
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:10 pm
by rab1
Ansi, your patio is a bit of a bodge but can be fixed if you speak to the right contractor. all trades are infiltrated with cowboys as 75% of the population seem to think we should deliver a silk purse out of a sows ear... at our cost?.
The lads on here basically charge surgeons wages (your words) for a top class job which will be done to a higher than expected standard, so to criticize them is unfair.
From what I gather from your original post is: you paid for a small area to be paved/pointed at an agreed cost at the 2nd lowest cost given with no real specification of what you wanted given.
The Boss started this web page to help the likes of yourself and always informs of best practice along with top notch advice all at his own cost.
Granted your not happy but why not call back your contractor and explain you concerns and how you would like the process of repair to continue.
Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:32 pm
by cookiewales
Ansi wrote:lutonlagerlout wrote:EEK!
its all kicked off
see what happens when i go to work for a day
the smiley faces are there for a reason fellas ,use them! :;):
£600 is too cheap
we charge approx £75 to dig out ,terram,stone up and lay the flags of choice,then point
if you add easipoint and say £20 per metre sandstone thats £100 per metre
to make a small job pay ,and i havent seen it it would be 2 days for 2 blokes,which costs me £500 add the £385 materials leaves me £315 profit out of which i pay diesel ,tax,insurance,office costs,CITB levy,corporation tax,
i feel sorry for you arsi whoops i mean ansi (freudian slip) :;):
you are right ,there are loads and loads of complete numpties out there
i would like to feel that most of the bloke here are conscientious about their work and obviously some have taken your comments to heart
its not the worst i have seen,but it falls way below a decent standard
all the best LLL
The stone is about £12 a metre.
We cleared the site (probably about a tonne and half of earth). Disposal was easy - Freecycle.
No earth was moved, no stone was laid.
This website suggests that the price is about on the money; I have no yardstick and therefore I bow to greater knowledge than mine. Clearly though this website is out by a significant margin.
When you don't have the knowledge you research; clearly I put my faith in the wrong source.
If, as someone did, suggest I went for the cheapest price I'm going to take offence. I didn't and as fas as I'm concerned I exercised due dilligence. As the owner of business operating in one of the most capital intensive industries in the UK (a million pound machine is charged out at £250 per hour) it's really quite galling to be lectured to about the costs of running a business.
...and n and r aren't neighbours unless you use a Dvorak keyboard.
ansi i am in the top end of paving or so i like to think but because the stone was only 12 pound m2 does not mean a cheap job should happen i put down the same base for 12 pound stone which is good or 100 pound plus new york stone but do charge more for the 100 pound plus stone to lay six hundred pound is cheap but also can be done if in one day ie free tip hard core still needed sand cement pointing no cuting min sand cement bed and cash in hand at the end of play ps i go to lots of jobs where clients have wasted thoushands on cowboys but still want a cheap job i say look at our work and compare like for like the guys on here do what it says on the tin we are proud tradesmen and have a love for the job ps i allways use smileys