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Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:28 pm
by mickg
Should your 3.5 ton van be fitted with a tacho
The law states that the weight of the trailer must be added to the gross vehicle weight of the van.
So if the van has a gvw of 3.5 tonnes and it’s towing a two-tonne trailer, the vehicle effectively weighs 5.5 tonnes and must have a tachograph – and you’ll need an O-licence to operate it too.
There are exceptions to this rule and the main two that may apply are:
If the vehicle is not being used for hire and reward
If the vehicle doesn’t travel more than 50km (33 miles) from its base.
What is not Hire or Reward
You are NOT usually operating for Hire or Reward when you carry goods you own or goods you have used or will use in the course of your business.
Changes to operator licensing rules for vehicles under 3.5 tonnes towing small trailers
because most of us here travel from A to B in the course of our day then its classed as "NOT" for hire or reward therefore we do not need an operators licence or need to use a tacho
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:44 pm
by williams
That's right, it took me a while to determine what these laws mean but ultimately if your using the machine yourself in your own buisness then you don't need the o licence, looking at the above it appears you don't need a tacho either.
I could well fit one of these to the dash in any case :p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taco
What do you think mickg about what I mentioned above about the owing in the new shape sprinter? I'm guessing yours pulls the trailer and machine ok? The main thing I'm worried about is safety, don't get me wrong I don't want any fines but I do want it to be safe, sadly the red tape small buisness is up against isn't necessarily sensible or about safety, it's more about, well nothing it appears.
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:29 pm
by tarmal & Co
If you check on the government site about operaters licenses it will explain that you do need operaters license for van and trailer. I have a restricted operaters license and I only do my own work but still have to have one.
You can register to be exempt from tachos if you don't go any further than 50km from your base.It gets very complicated to try and stay legal
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:30 pm
by dig dug dan
i think mickg posted the relevant link
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:56 pm
by GB_Groundworks
There was a piece in earthmovers a while back that covered most of this, on Sunday ill dig it out and see if I can scan it in.
Sure they said 60 mile radius of base moving a digger which you then use is tachometer exempt as your not a professional truck driver you are a digger driver who just moved the machine to the job. Might have been specific to utilities though.
Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:12 pm
by mickg
I read this yesterday what mentions the radius of 62 miles
BALI works with ELCA to achieve compromise on tachograph regulations
The amendment negotiated by ELCA at the EU Commission means that vehicles with a total weight of up to 7.5 tonnes, working exclusively within a radius of 100 km (62 miles) from their company base and that transport material, equipment and machines required by the driver of the vehicle to carry out his work, are exempted from the requirement to install a digital tachograph. The vehicle driver must not be a full-time driver
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:52 am
by dig dug dan
Reading that mick, it suggests I could buy a 6.3 tonner and not require a tacho?
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:27 am
by Dave_L
It's a very very grey area this - the NOT for hire or reward is a grey area - surely the machine is being transported by the 'company' doing the works, and this transport has to be factored into the job, you're not doing it for free....
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:47 am
by mickg
As per the VOSA link
Issued: 23 December 2011 Changes to operator licensing rules for vehicles under 3.5 tonnes towing small trailers
What is not Hire or Reward
You are NOT usually operating for Hire or Reward when you carry goods you own or goods you have used or will use in the course of your business.
Examples
In each of the following examples a Van below 3,500 kgs (3.5t) and a small trailer is used to transport a mini-digger from a depot to a work site. The gross plated weights of vehicle and trailer when combined exceed 3.5t.
These examples cover most circumstances; however there are more than these simple examples so if you are in any doubt please contact VOSA Enquiries.
Example 1 - The digger is owned by you, the user of the vehicle. You use the digger on the site. This transport is done on your own account and you do not need an operator’s licence.
Example 2 - The digger is rented by you, the user of the vehicle. You use the digger on the site. This transport is done on your own account and you do not need an operator’s licence.
Example 3 - The digger is rented by you, the owner of the digger is the user of the vehicle (they deliver to site for you to use). You use the digger on the site. This transport is done on the "own account" of the digger renting company and they do not need an operator’s licence.
Example 4 - The digger is owned by the building company, you collect it from building company’s depot and bring to site. You use the digger on the site. This transport is done on your own account and you do not need an operator’s licence.
Example 5 - The digger is owned by the building company, having used the digger you take it from one site to another site (where the digger is stored). This transport is done on your own account and you do not need an operator’s licence.
Example 6 - The digger is not owned by you, you collect it from a depot and deposit it at a site where another company uses it. If you are rewarded for this work in any way (payment or in kind) this is hire or reward, you have not under taken this work on your own account, you have made a pure freight journey – and you will therefore need an operator’s licence.
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:57 am
by Dave_L
Ah thats much clearer, cheers Mick
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:21 pm
by Nigel Walker
After 13 years of using Transit Tippers i am now fully converted to a Landrover Discovery with an ifor Williams trailer.
Previously I could only legally carry 1.1 ton on the tipper
Now I can tow 3.5 ton legally with the Disco. My trailer is rated to carry 2.7 ton and weighs 600 kgs. So now I collect 2.7 ton from the quarry
in one trip whereas this used to be 3 trips with the tipper. The saving on time has been massive. Also means I can unhitch the trailer and use the disco on its own.
The Disco is classed as a commercial vehicle as it is a special edition with no seats in back and a bulk head.
Best thing I have bought ! I can now understand why all these landrover drivers are so passionate !
I just transport for my own jobs and not hire and reward so I am ok
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:37 pm
by GB_Groundworks
dig dug dan wrote:Reading that mick, it suggests I could buy a 6.3 tonner and not require a tacho?
youd be fine for your work, but when delivering the crushers you'd need to use a tacho
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:40 pm
by GB_Groundworks
we had the kx016-4 and breaker on the trailer behind the 7.5 ton today with 3.5 ton of dtp1 on gross train weight must have been 9000kg+ my foreman is class 1 though
tows like its not there
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:47 pm
by mickg
I take it you had the steel drop side tipper Nigel and not the aluminium which is rated to carry just over 1800kg
I was going down the route of a disco Nigel as the MAM is higher but I felt its a one job item where as with a pickup you can carry stone, sand or a tracked dumper on the back and you can still tow the digger on a trailer
Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 8:49 pm
by mickg
how can that make any difference Giles, its the MAM of the vehicle not what licence you hold, I used to have my class 2 but I still could not go over any weight limit and be legal if stopped ?