Mini crusher

[lutonlagerlout]

i like dan's machine it works great and as the same with all power tools you DONT put your hands in,thats just common sense
the conveyor belt is very handy for loading barrows,but easily comes off when necessary
LLL

[Mikey_C]

I personally think the principle and expanding use of the machines is very good thing. I can't comment on the bav machine as I haven't used it but I have used the same model as dan rents I found the safety features slight OTT and inconvenient based on the the same principle as defined by LLL (if touch the spinning shiney blade of the circular/mitre saw expect to lose a finger, you have nine further attempts to learn your lesson). However, with the right amount of perseverance you can get round most things :;):
The conveyor had both advantages (barrow loading) and disadvantages collection of fines at base, extra size causing decreased mobility. Now days with the price of diesel it is all about delivery and running costs

[Digbits]

What you need to know/understand about the safety issues is that, as the law now stands, the 'common sense' of the user cannot be assumed.

Whilst I agree wholeheartedly with Mikey_C and LLL that (in an ideal world) the safety on both our BAVTRAK 009 micro and the TCP's micro is OTT, we've discussed this with very well qualified risk assessors and also safety officers from leading plant/tool hirers, all of whom agree it's an unfortunate neccessity. When we were testing our prototype micro in 2004, we spent months running it without any guards without any of our engineers incurring so much as scratch - because they knew that if the jaws would crush concrete they'd make short work of human flesh and bone!

You have to remember we now live in an age where people sue because coffee is hot and scalds them when they drop it in their lap. Where some workers do see the trading of a finger for £10k to £20k of compensation as a 'good deal'. Where no-win-no-fee ambulance chasers are rife.

Anyone putting plant onto a site for other - especially unskilled - people to use has to be aware of the potential criminal prosecutions in the event of severe injury or death. As one safety officer from a major UK hirer said "it's an arse covering exercise", but all the same it's sadly neccessary.

[Digbits]

if you want a 3.5 ton crusher try try the komplet lem track 4825 cautrac is selling them we have just had one on demo very good apart from discharge conveyor not high enough to load dumper but got 20 ton an hour out of it

20t per hour is plenty quick for a 480 x 250 jaw feed!

As regards the RR 5000 is th tank really only 4 gallons?!

We have about 45 litre capacity on the BAVTRAK 025 which is usually plenty for an 8 hour shift. We did this because we know, if at all possible, hirers prefer (for obvious reasons!) that their hire customers don't have to refuel on site.

[ambient]

yes it took 4 gallons from bone dry,i expect to use most plant(diggers,dumpers,crushers) all day without refilling,20 ton an hour out of the komplet machine is very good when crushing to 25mm not had anything beet it yet only got less than 10 ton per hour out of red rhino

[Rich H]

RR5000 does use loads of fuel. I think the hopper is too small and too high as well. You struggle to load it with a JCB 1.5t. Fast, though.

[Digbits]

...20 ton an hour is very good when crushing to 25mm not had anything beet it yet only got less than 10 ton per hour out of red rhino...

To be fair, with the 025, we find the hourly output is massively variable, depending on the precise material being crushed, whether there's any soil contamination etc. and how full, or not, the jaws are kept.

Things that we've found slow the job:
- moisture, especially on porous material
- overfilling the jaws; they don't need a 'head of pressure'!
- reinforcing mesh
- very hard grades of rock

The 'sweet spot' for the 025 seems to be larger chunks of decent grade concrete, or kerbstones which, because of the different tooth system used, tend to blow as they crush and keep the material moving nicely.

[ambient]

we use a riddle bucket to get rid of soil and fines first, mainly crush concrete flags,bricks,kerbstones and concrete,we never put reinforced through them or thick tarmac doesnt crush just blocks the jaw never tried an 025

[Digbits]

The 025 will happily take reinforced concrete, but it's near useless with tarmac, unless it's heavily diluted with harder material.

It won't crush railway line either, as we found out at SED! We had to retreive a 6" long section of it which must have been embedded in the material we'd been supplied. Didn't hurt the crusher 'box, but there's no way it'd crush.

I agree that a riddle bucket is absolutely the right way to go with any small crusher.

[dig dug dan]

why anyone would want to crush tarmac is beyond me. Its next to useless in our industry except on a farm track, and its use as a subbase is dodgy to say the least (i.e. don't fo it)
As for the safety, the ring fence on my machine is supplied by myself everytime i hire it. The hirer signs a hire agreement, and two of the clauses are 1., the saftey fence must not be removed(except to gain access through narrow areas, and 2. no responsibilty is accepeted for any injury whilst using this machine.
Every hirer always removes the safety fence.
If you want to stick your hand in, then you will and no amount of safety features will prevent this.
There is nothing to stop anyone climbing on the red rhino, lemtrak,guidetti or bavtrak and putting your leg in the jaw, but i have seen it done!

As marcus says, when its your own machine, you tend to use it day in day out without a hitch

Only last week, i hired my machine to a driveway company , and the govenor of the company was using the machine. he broke two fingers in the machine(or should i say "squash"!). The resultant injury was "disturbing" to say the least.
He admits he wasn't paying attention.
I even heard of a rep trying to sell a machine, using it with the safety barriers on, still managing to lose an entire digit in the jaws of doom.

As for output, the bigger the jaw, the more it will crush.
And when you dont need a "head of concrete" as marcus correctly states, its even better.
Thats why i can't understand why the red rhino is so popular. Its the worst one of all of them on the market imho.

[Artisan]

As for the safety, the ring fence on my machine is supplied by myself everytime i hire it. The hirer signs a hire agreement, and two of the clauses are 1., the saftey fence must not be removed(except to gain access through narrow areas, and 2. no responsibilty is accepeted for any injury whilst using this machine.
Every hirer always removes the safety fence.
....................

Only last week, i hired my machine to a driveway company , and the govenor of the company was using the machine. he broke two fingers in the machine(or should i say "squash"!). The resultant injury was "disturbing" to say the least.
He admits he wasn't paying attention.
I even heard of a rep trying to sell a machine, using it with the safety barriers on, still managing to lose an entire digit in the jaws of doom.

I have considered buying a crusher and hiring it out, but having read the comments about the safety equipment, that is either so poorly designed that it has to be removed by all users, or even when in place allows serious injuries to occur to its users, think I will pass up the chance! Hiring out a machine with such known safety problems will inevitably lead to being sued.

[dig dug dan]

Hiring out a machine with such known safety problems will inevitably lead to being sued.

thats why i have the two clauses on my hire agreement.
theres no come back then.

[ambient]

I WAS THINKING OF BUYING ONE BUT NOT SURE WHICH ONE THATS WHY I HAVE BEEN TRYING THEM BUT I WOULD NEED TO HIRE IT OUT AS WELL TO HELP WITH COSTS ONLY ONES UP HERE ARE RED RHINOS AND I DONT THINK MUCH OF THEM WONDERED WHETHER IT WILL MAKE ANY MONEY OR END UP LOSING SOME

[dig dug dan]

red rhino micro, £24,000. 390mm x 190mm input size. (soon to be subject to operators licence)
Bavtrak 009 £17,500(est.) 315mm x 359mm inlet (no conveyor)
(may be subject to operators licence)
Tcp Micro crusher. £17,500. 400x400mm opening.
operators licence exempt

the last two have a crushing action on the jaw, rather than a grinding action.

[Digbits]

The issue of licensing is a massively complex subject - too much to cover on a forum - about which we have an inside track because we have been (and to an extent still are) in consultation with DEFRA to try and set sensible limits to the rules. Officially, to the letter of the law, as the rules used to apply, any crusher fell under the licensing remit and it was very much down to the approach of local officers has to how they treated smaller machines. The potential requirement for crusher licensing exists for ALL crushers. There may, however be Part B 'triviality exemptions' - espcially for machines below 15hp (like the 009 & TCP micros) but they are evaluated on an individual basis and are dependant upon critera such as where, when and how the machines are used.

Environmental officers have often been lenient with smaller crushers, because they realise that local policy planners want (and need if they are to meet EU recycling targets and avoid fines) on site recycling to take place. However, the more considerate you are in terms of noise, dust etc. the better they're able to exercise their discretion! (Note that the licence relates to Local Authority Air Polution Control (LAPC) regualtions.)

To quote DEFRA:
"In the view of Defra and WAG it is not possible to determine triviality solely on the basis of the size of particular crushing or screening plant. The likelihood of impact will depend also on the location of the plant, the amount of time it is operating in that location, and whether effective dust suppression equipment is fitted and used. There will therefore be different decisions in different cases, according to circumstances."

The rules are in the process of being changed, largely for the better, although we're currently in communication with both DEFRA and members of the House of Commons to try to work further, practical changes for smaller mobile crushers.

More info here: http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/ppc/localauth/fees-risk/fees.htm

P.S. BAVTRAK 009 is still £16,600 + VAT. (Conveyor is an extra £2,500.)



Edited By Digbits on 1217498718