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Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:34 pm
by rxbren
Its not your national insurance if you pay someone paye they have a deduction from their pay for national insurance then as an employer you pay a further contribution for them it gets expensive real quick
Moat likely the reason you always hear people moaning that agency staff het a better hourly rate than their employed counterparts
If you can employ them through the cis scheme then ita just a flat rate deduction and payment to hmrc
Not sure how it works legal wise but you could just get them to invoice you each week and possibly pay full amount to them as long as they sign an agreement they wipp pay their own tax
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:56 am
by lemoncurd1702
They have to gain "gross payment" status with the HMRC to avoid tax deduction. If you don't deduct and regardless of whether he pays his tax or not you will be liable to Hmrc for that 20%.
To get around the full time self employ get a customer to pay him by cheque or transfer. That way he has worked for other people also.
Really speaking though the easiest way is to pay cash and leave it to him to pay the tax or not.
The Gov. do not make it easy for small business to employ and that is why so many do just pay cash.
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:09 pm
by rxbren
When you pay someone cash do you keep records for your tax return or do you just pay the extra tax as if you never payed it out
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:37 pm
by lemoncurd1702
I don't pay cash, the lads are on CIS and their money is paid by bank transfer. I know of many in this industry who do pay their lads cash and I very much doubt that it's recorded, I think that's the whole point is to stay out of the system.
These same companies easily exceed my turnover yet are not Vat registered. They keep their turnover below the threshold and do the rest of the turnover in cash. Kinda makes it unfair trying to compete with them 
I'm no Saint but some really do take the pistols.
Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:57 pm
by lutonlagerlout
BACS is the way forward, if the plumber invoices us for a heating system he has to give us the labour/material breakdown and we stop him 20% on the labour. PITA but thats the way it is
other lads are self employed,bar the apprentice
they have a choice ,if they go PAYE its 20% less topline money,none have gone for that so far
as said above they chop and change a bit so that they do not work continuously for 1 firm.
cash is the 80's isnt it? more aggro than its worth
LLL
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:26 pm
by Forestboy1978
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I'm even more bewildered than I was before though lol. This is gonna take some serious consideration.
I think for the time being I may just work my ass off an earn as much as poss off my own steam.
Ta
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:09 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
Why can't you pay someone c.i.s for a while until you find your right man /lad.
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:30 pm
by RAPressureWashing
Not the best why to go, but what about an agency worker? only use them or a different person on the days you need if it is just "Donkey" work, you'll get an invoice for the time etc and no other costs, but if you want to train someone to become part of your company then you'll have to bite the bullet and take someone on full time.
Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:50 pm
by rxbren
Agency workers cost a fortune used some a couple of years ago when fencing on new builds. All foreign hardly any English plus don't want to work as agency only gives them part of whatever rate they charge then its plus vat
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:08 pm
by Forestboy1978
Agency might be a good way of stealing good workers though. Just chop and change until a good ones comes along. I have no loyalty to recruitment agencies.
Gotta come to some sort of conclusion and figure this all out cos I can't manage.
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 12:34 am
by rxbren
Unfortunately agencies have it in their terms about hiring staff directly that you have had from them it comes in as either a payment for introducing that person or you have tohave them through the agency fir a number of weeks/months
You could try and get them off under the radar but be careful as there is potential for issues
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:43 pm
by rab1
as long as the agency employee tells the agency they are packing in before they start its all good, obviously not that there starting with you.
Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:40 pm
by rxbren
That's the thing if they find out they left them to start with you they then look for their introduction fee
Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:49 pm
by rab1
they don't in the m&e world, they want repeat business more but as long as the lad doesn't mention he has started with you who's too know 
Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:27 pm
by lutonlagerlout
IIRC they want a finders fee ,around 10% of one years salary
I found our new apprentice through the wife's faceache page
gumtree is pretty good too
LLL