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Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:32 pm
by cookiewales
never kneel down when laying paving and use a smaller hammer less strain on elbows and wrist good skills not bash em in are best .keep warm and dry pay for good work wear and boots and if all else fails win the lottery :p
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:19 pm
by baracuda
hears a quick one, doing some paving today for a local housing authority only leveling up the old tombstones. in the house the sparks were doing a full rewire, went in to fill our kettle the dust was unbeliveable in there, asked the sparks if could use the tap and he said better ask the tennant! turns out the bloke and his dog were still in there whilst they did the rewire been going on a week was going too take another the house didnt look like some of the ones been too but the dust they were making hacking and channeling out was unbelivable the bloke said could get my water he was not happy with the mess but housing ass wont move him out.
how do they stand on this?
as if we need to cut then have to use the dust supression.
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:39 pm
by henpecked
Every job is different. 9 times out of ten the short cut is used '.to get the job done' .Why, when they set a site up, a fully kitted 20ft container is plonked immediately on the site? It would have the same gravitas as providing rest facilities and toilets. Full of dust oppression tools, masks,ear defenders.
One of my gripes on site as the availability of kit to the lads. The H+S guy would have gloves and the like ,locked up in his office rather than ensuring everyone had access to it.
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:27 am
by Tony McC
One of the issues that has already been raised is this availability of H&S kit. Is it the responsibility of the employer or the operative? If it's down to the employer, who exactly is the employer? Is it the bloke you're working for or the bloke he's working for?
What about white van man? Roughly 80% of Britain's paving trade is white-van gangs, run by one boss with a raggle-taggle assortment of hands and labourers. How do we convince this 'boss' that it's in his best interest to ensure his staff have all the kit they need? I don't think the 'big stick' approach by relying solely on prosecutions is either desirable or even viable, so what carrot should be dangled in front of him/her?
And what about the operative's responsibility? Is it fair to expect the employer to bear all liability because some eejit does nothing for themself? We expect operatives to provide their own protective boots, so what about gloves, masks, goggles, etc.?
How can we ensure that the gangs using better manual handling or providing better working conditions are given priority over the corner-cutting cowboys? Is this even possible in a trade where price seems to be the only consideration?
As you can see, there is a whole lot of questions being raised, and the answers are not always obvious. We want to upgrade the trade to the point where providing a safe working environment is the norm, and where we don't lose valuable skills and experience because operatives are literally knackered by the time they are 40. How do we get there?
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:41 pm
by ilovesettsonmondays
job im on now 900 x 600x 63mm thick . no lifters . old school way of dropping them in .why dont the people making these slabs band them so they are not on edge so you can put the sucker straight on them (if you have one ) like marshalls and bbs do with their sawn york.think its time to make 63mm slabs no bigger than 600mmx 600mm
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:56 pm
by lutonlagerlout
thats what i am talking about chris
slabs @>80kg is just asking for an accident
LLL
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:21 pm
by henpecked
Tony McC wrote:One of the issues that has already been raised is this availability of H&S kit. Is it the responsibility of the employer or the operative? If it's down to the employer, who exactly is the employer? Is it the bloke you're working for or the bloke he's working for?
What about white van man? Roughly 80% of Britain's paving trade is white-van gangs, run by one boss with a raggle-taggle assortment of hands and labourers. How do we convince this 'boss' that it's in his best interest to ensure his staff have all the kit they need? I don't think the 'big stick' approach by relying solely on prosecutions is either desirable or even viable, so what carrot should be dangled in front of him/her?
And what about the operative's responsibility? Is it fair to expect the employer to bear all liability because some eejit does nothing for themself? We expect operatives to provide their own protective boots, so what about gloves, masks, goggles, etc.?
How can we ensure that the gangs using better manual handling or providing better working conditions are given priority over the corner-cutting cowboys? Is this even possible in a trade where price seems to be the only consideration?
As you can see, there is a whole lot of questions being raised, and the answers are not always obvious. We want to upgrade the trade to the point where providing a safe working environment is the norm, and where we don't lose valuable skills and experience because operatives are literally knackered by the time they are 40. How do we get there?
Sort of a #lead by example' approach Gaffer.
As 'Sets' has just said, he is on a job where they're dropping slabs in, a job 'which' should provide the guys with the right kit, regardless of banding or packaging.
Start on the big sites, no questions asked, its the main site contractors responsibly, cascaded through the leading hands, and the guys on the ground also have access to the kit too.
Anything else will lead to fudging and finger pointing. :;):
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:49 am
by Tony McC
The packaging issue *is* being considered. We have people from Marshalls, Brett and Charcon in the larger project group, with some of them working specifically on how products can be made more installer-friendly. There's a Marshallette on the 'Risk' group with me and we are working together on compiling this comprehensive list which we can present to the rest of our group at our next meeting in March.
And in answer to 'setts', there is good reasoning why pcc flags are supplied on-edge in banded bales - they're stronger that way. When on edge, each flag is sort-of supporting most of its own weight (it's slightly more complicated because of the vertical interlock created by friction between each vertical flag), but is stored flat, it's all loaded onto the poor sod at the bottom.
I can't pre-empt what the manufacturers' group might come up with, but the growing need to provide flat-stacks for machine-aided installation is on their agenda.
Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 9:44 pm
by seanandruby
.......... long gone are the days when i'd be on the lorry 'bowling' a row of flags' off and a guy every now and then placing a brick behind one to straighten the row up, work of art and a skill in itself 
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:29 am
by Carberry
Don't think anyone cares about the odd scrape, bruise, blister they happen regardless and you just get on with the job.
The important thing to avoid is the long term damage;
Using dust suppression, if you can't then everyone nearby should have the appropriate mask on to avoid permanent pulmonary damage.
If you're tools vibrate don't use them for any longer than it says in the instructions to avoid HAVS.
Lifting correctly to avoid damage to back and joints.
Not kneeling to lay paving, or using knee pads, to avoid damage to knees.
Ear defenders when working with or near loud power tools so you don't get tinnitus
Proper tools for moving big slabs, whether it be the vacuum lifter, a sack truck or a wheelbarrow without the barrow.
Proper qualifications for the industry so people learn how to play slabs first time instead of lifting them up 4 times to get it level.
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:51 am
by seanandruby
.........all the training in the world won't prepare you for a 'rogue ' flag/kerb. you can lay a line of 50 no probs', then all of a sudden you get one stubborn b*****d that won't comply, it's in and out, up and down like it has a mind of it's own. After talking to yourself an cursing it for half an hour you think it's given up, only to return later as a rocker. I swear if you look closely you will see it smiling at you ??? :laugh:
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:23 am
by lutonlagerlout
so true sean
there is always one on every job that gets the best of me
same as on big jobs there is always 1 complete prick,and he is normally a clerk of the works or site manager :;):
LLL
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:08 am
by ilovesettsonmondays
the biggest prick on our job is jack frost .second day on the run now .no work .
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:46 am
by henpecked
Chuck a cup of water into the pea gravel if is going to be used this morning, then retire to the brew cabin and get a window seat :laugh:
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:01 am
by Tony McC
seanandruby wrote:.......... long gone are the days when i'd be on the lorry 'bowling' a row of flags' off and a guy every now and then placing a brick behind one to straighten the row up, work of art and a skill in itself
That used to be my job when I was 7 or 8. My dad and his lads would be up on the wagon, hand offloading 300 3x2s in half and hour, and I'd have to dart in with a brick or piece of broken flagstone every now and again to reduce the angle of lean.
Can you imagine the look of horror on the faces of today's H&S crowd?
I remember the crane off-load coming in. It was a paid-for optional extra. I think it used to be 13 quid, which was around half a day's wage for a labourer back then.