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Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:28 pm
by mickavalon
I've been approached by all of the various schemes, one told me they would sign us up for a flat fee and we could make up the recommendations, ( and that was quite a big national) most of the others are much more credible, but my main point with them all is we don't really use any of their products enough to warrant it and we're swimming in work already, so why would I need their recommendation or assurance.
Tony is spot on with the idea of a national assured scheme, trade run, which would help raise standards and could even start training courses, although there are a few already in existence, i.e A.P.L, B.a.l.i, FMB, etc. I've looked at all of the alternative's, and believe that quality work and a professional attitude get us our work regardless of who we do or don't belong to.
Simon, just keep doing quality work mate, don't worry about how big your portfolio is, you'll get work, it just takes time, patience and loads of networking mate. Get to know your suppliers well, other landscapers etc It's took me 10 years graft to build my company, and it's now going pretty well, but it's been a slog mate. (if you need work I've got loads, call me)
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:47 am
by Tony McC
To be fair, APL, BALI, FMB et al are not really paving organisations, and I know this is a sweeping generalisation, but when we get turf-layers with an APL/BALI accreditation, too many of them seem to think this means they are qualified to install paving, usually with disastrous results.
A strictly paving trade body would maintain standards and carry real credibility for those who come from the landscape sector and those in the civils/groundworks/building sector.
The reason I don't set one up is because I just don't have the time to run any additional loss-making businesses. I'm too busy bankrupting meself with the ones I already have!
The truth is there is already just such a body, but their hands are tied, politically, to the manufacturers and they are truly shite at promoting themselves!
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:32 pm
by sy76uk
Just read throgh all the posts since my last one and I have a few points to make.
Firstly, Paul is a top bloke.
2, I've read through marshals installation manual. No problems there because I lay all my paving to there specs anyway.
3, With me being a start up business, being an approved installer really does give potential customers peace of mind.
in the last few days I've put 2 quotes out. I've got a feeling that I'll get both jobs and a big factor in that has been the marshals garuantee.
4, it would be nice if we had one governing body but we haven't so we'll have just make do with what we've got.
I'm glad I've gone ahead and joined up. I think it will help to kick start my business.
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 9:31 pm
by mickg
Tony McC wrote:The truth is there is already just such a body
Do you mean Interlay ?
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:16 am
by Tony McC
I do indeed.
I know they are attempting to show that they are independent of the manufacturers, but they are effectively run by BPCF whose largest members are.....the concrete manufacturers.
It's not as blatant as it was a decade back, and I should stress that I have no criticism of the organisation or any of its members. My disappointment is that it just doen't have the clout that it should, and that is very much a result of its previous over-reliance on financial support from the manufacturers, and the reluctance/refusal of most of the manufacturers to promote an independent trade association in preference to their own schemes, which, at the end of the day, are marketing campaigns rather than trade bodies seeking to promote best practice and the pursuit of excellence *across the board*.
I've no problem with manufacturers having their own layers' schemes, and I think it's great they hand out awards to work of outstanding merit, but that should be subsidiary to an industry-wide neutral, impartial body which promotes the trade regardless of supplier or materials, and which can represent the best interests of the installers rather than act as an unpaid sales/promotional agency for the manufacturers.
That should be Interlay. Sadly, at the moment, it isn't.
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:45 pm
by mickg
not trying to be funny or post anything detrimental against interlay but there was a bit of an up surge last year to start promoting interlay to gain additional members seeing as it was formed 30 years ago and only have approx 50 members
I say upsurge it was via a post made on twitter on the 11th October 2013 and I did make a snide comment relating to why are there no members north of watford gap - talk about closed shop keep it in the dirty souf to save having any meeting outside the M25
it seems I promoted it more than them by making a post on a landscaping forum and still did not get a reply from anyone at interlay
Interlay - An independent association of paving contractors
anyway nearly 6 months on and I have not seen anything relating to promoting interlay, if I have missed something then maybe someone could point me in the right direction or get a response from Darren the interlay chairman ?
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:30 am
by lutonlagerlout
the thing is as mentioned on landscape hub,people like FENSA,GAS SAFE and the NIEC actually go out and check contractors jobs,at random and IIRC 3 a year have to be checked,plus every job has to be certified and signed off
this most certainly isnt the case with paving
I picked up the 2014 marshalls catalogue today and it was nice to see award winning stuff (and mickg) in it but untill work is genuinely checked for compliance we are stuck with a multitude of stickers
In the last month I have seen a contractor on 1 of the big firms lists install a drive with no drainage, no edgings,and little thought
it would be unfair to name them in public as we dont know what cost pressure that contractor was under
from what I have learned marshalls and bretts seem very good schemes
interlay is just a sticker that I see around from time to time
LLL
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 11:15 am
by Tony McC
All Mick's criticisms of Interlay are fair and justified. It *is* dominated by southern based contractors, and it *does* tend to hold meetings in that London or thereabouts which is of no value whatsoever to a northern or Scottish-based contractor.
Time and time again I've 'expressed my thoughts' on how to improve Interlay's standing but for whatever reason, I'm repeatedly ignored. I know a large part of it is funding, but there's also a big dollop of apathy from the supply side of the industry who could do heel of a lot more to support a respected independent trade body.
There should be regional meetings for any trade body, as no busy contractor can be expected to travel more than an hour, maybe 90 mins, for a pow-wow unless there was something vital that would *definitely* benefit their business. Many contractors are brilliant at laying paving but would not be comfortable standing up to push ideas or voice opinions at an open meeting. Some of the best contractors I know are relatively quiet people: head down, lay the stone, draw your money, say nowt.
Why aren't Interlay participating in this thread to defend themselves or publicise the good stuff they do? I know the answer, but it isn't for me to lay bare their admin/management shortcomings. To summarise: they just don't have the time and/or money to do this sort of thing.
The key to a successful trade body is keeping standards high, and that can only be done by regular vetting and inspection, which costs money. Interlay just don't have the funding available, and the manufacturer trade bodies are overly reliant on sales bods looking at work while they are out and about. A few of those sales bods will actually know what they are looking at but far too many are pretty clueless when it comes to installation. Sorry, but an ability to negotiate a sale price with a BM does not qualify a person to assess whether a pavement has been properly constructed, and that's why some of these 'approved' schemes aren't worth the wrapper off a pack of blocks.
Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:40 pm
by cookiewales
Have to say the boyos I met from marshals were all ex paviors and knew there job having laid paving we all do something's different but still get the end result 