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Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:09 am
by seanandruby
How can we possibly agree with a grown up man who watches shite like coro' st? How old hat is that? i'm sure if you would like to donate your time and more importantly your money then the boss might let you do something about it :p
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:04 pm
by local patios and driveway
If my name was associated with the site like aj macormack i certainly would fund it. This site must get hundreds of thousands of hits each week, the off shoot of that would be worth a good budget to maintain and improve the site, however sean my contribution is via the forum and in return i get a little advice too. Not my place to pay for modernisation but as a public forum you are open to all views and opinions from the public... :p
Posted: Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:04 pm
by London Stone Paving
goes without saying that this site is the best about. Its a live site. Where else can you post a question and literally get a professional answer (most of the time 
) within a matter of minutes sometimes.
Probarbly could do with a bit of an update. There is a mass of information on the site and it could be daunting for an experienced person looking for specific information.
However we could say the same about all of our businesses. They are all works in progress, mine certainly is
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:27 am
by Edgar
I've just had a look at that drivewayexpert site. There's absolutely no comparison between that site and pavingexpert.com. Here there is a massive source of detailed technical information backed up by very knowledgeable and friendly experts. There there is a superficial let's play at making a web site thing.
If I had had to rely on drivewayexpert I'd still be wondering what to do about my drive instead of which it's been down over a year. Maybe drivewayexpert does tell me how to calculate how many crates I would need for my soakaway but I couldn't find it.
Where else can I find such a fun Brew Cabin?
My thanks to you all and especially to the Gaffer.
Edgar
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:21 am
by Tony McC
I know the bloke who owns driveway expert. In fact, some of the Brew Cabin Irregulars have worked for him, but he chose not to reveal his hand. He will readily admit he has no interest in driveways or paving or construction in general, but the site is just a way of grabbing interweb real estate, and is just one of a whole slew of similar 'territory claim' websites which all follow the same format. Several years ago they asked me to provide content, all FOC of course, to which there was a two word answer. If there was any realistic chance of making serious money from sites such as these, they would be flooded with ads within minutes.
Which brings me to the fininacial realities of running a site like this. The only way to make money is to run ads, and the only way to make enough money to fund a full time manager/administrator/developer, is to run lots of ads. As pavingexpert was never set up as a money-making scheme, I choose to run only sufficient ads to cover the running costs so that now, unlike the first 12 years of its life, the site isn't costing me several thousand quid per annum to keep going.
A decade ago, I completely revamped the site, but back then, it was less than a quarter of the size it is now, and I was able to devote a few months to re-designing, re-writing, re-drawing and re-building. Nowadays, the cost of revamping the site to the so-called "web 2.0" styling is roughly 45 thousand quid. I know, because I've had quotes to carry out the work.
I don't have 45 grand to spare. The site doesn't generate enough money in its current format to justify a business loan to pay for the re-decorating. The business model put forward by several so-called experts in what we now refer to as "monetisation" is that the site would need to have *prominent* ads on every page - top, middle and bottom - and that we would need to start selling products to earn a commission.
This model would pay for the revamp and make me a few quid in the process, but it goes against everything I want for pavingexpert, which is to be a free and impartial source of information that places no commercial pressure on the contributors or the readers. Pavingexpert works because it doesn't try overly hard to flog you summat you don't need. Hopefully, the few ads that are present are relatively discreet and generally relevant. I don't allow ads for pharmaceuticals, gambling, adult entertainment and one or two other dubious categories, even though these could earn a better rate.
To me, the fact that the site hasn't been prettified in a decade is a small price to pay to keep the ads to a minimum and the sales-pitch non-existent. It's content that counts and the content would, more or less, be the same however the site looked. If I have a few hours to spare, I'm much happier creating new, additional, useful content rather than drawing rounded corner boxes around everything and spitting pages up into single screen length.
The fact that the site *does* get around 200,000 visitors pcm during the season, and that 56% of those viositors stay for 10mins or longer suggests that I miust be getting something right.
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:49 am
by seanandruby
''If it ain't broke don't try to fix it.'' Hat's off to you guv'nor 
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:31 am
by DNgroundworks
I like it, if you want to see a crap website you want to have a look at the one i tried to build - what a disaster! £45k sounds alot of cash Tony? Where did they get that figure from?
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:31 pm
by Carberry
£45k sounds like way too much. All the information is on here so can just be copied and pasted, all they would have to do is create a couple of templates and you can do the donkey work copying everything over.
In any case, I have said it once and I will say it again, thanks for the great site Tony it made a difference to the quality of my work and the number of contracts that I win.
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 1:39 pm
by Tony McC
Based on the estimated hours to re-code the site using css throughout, create a new navigation system, redo all the graphics to make them compatible with a neutral background (and so remove what I consider to be a valuable image protection feature), build a new Brew Cabin but maintain all existing content, add Tw@tter and FaceAche accessibility (WTF??), and provide 24/7 tech s'port for the first 90 days.
Estimated at 900 hours for a web-team or over 22 weeks work for a single person. The best quote came from India; the quotes from UK based businesses were as much as 100% more expensive!
It does not include the time I would have to spend digging out original photies, videos and tech drawings just so some dweeb can re-size and "optimise", which would probably be another 900 hrs!
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:42 pm
by lutonlagerlout
if it aint broke............
LLL
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:14 pm
by Bob_A
I've never given the 'look' of this site much thought.
OK it may not look the most modern but I don’t see that as a problem.
Best metaphor I can think of is two hardware shops.
One is run by proper tradesmen, the decor is functional but you can get everything you need and if you're not sure what you want they'll tell you.
The other shop is an up to date Robert Dyas type shop where the kid behind the counter doesn’t know the difference between a screw and a nail or gives a feck. He’s more interested in selling you a toaster ‘cos that’s what he’s been targeted to do
Anyway enough of metaphors.
I’m constantly amazed how much information there is on the main site.
There isn’t a website that covers its subject matter so comprehensively
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:12 pm
by Stuarty
Bob pretty much sums it up for me there, the look is of no importance to me, its more about the information within the site. It reminds me of a hire shop i use quite alot, its jam packed wall to wall with stuff, a bit like aladdins cave, its got everything and anything and if your not sure where to find something, just ask
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:10 pm
by lutonlagerlout
good analogies
when the internet started for me (around 1998) there were loads of personal sites similar-ish to this one
but as time has gone on lots of sites have been amalgamated and merged
any one remember " music boulevard "?
i barely notice the adverts that are here,but what pains me is that if i search for a hotel in canterbury on google,for the next month every website i go on to has adverts for hotels in canterbury
LLL
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:31 pm
by Edgar
On another thread Pablo says "it works well on my paving I'm sure there are better products but I'm happy with the results so don't look any further.".
I'm an engineer who has, by accident, worked with computers off and on since about 1970 and I have very strong feelings that computing is frequently about artistic display, following the latest fashion, keeping computer folk well employed, or thrusting out adverts rather than trying to give information in a practical useful way. In paving terms it's like a customer who wants a drive that is puddle free and grit free being offered granite setts arranged in a clever and complicated pattern - tarmacadam, concrete or concrete blocks would do what he wants (I think!)
Does it make much real difference if you have to scroll down a bit as compared to clicking onto another page? For something like Toolstation I can see that clicking to see the details of that new post hole auger might seem a good idea, but for technical information I'd prefer to scroll down without disrupting my thought flow.
Tony, please keep this wonderful web site the way it is. Even £10 would be too much to spend on changing things just to fit in with current computing fashion. if it works leave it alone. Concentrate on the real substance. I'm sure that sensible reasons will one day occur that force a change but that's a different matter.
Edgar
Posted: Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:12 pm
by rab1
well put, lets face it fashion changes and in 20 years this site will be the most dapper of all.
Boss you will be CoCo Channel of the web pages. :p