Layman needs advice on botched patio job - Slopes towards house and <15cm from dpc

[rimexboy]

As said pay nothing

[lana]

Is it possible to remove the slabs from the cement without damaging the slabs?

don't know about your kind of slabs, but witnessed how mine were removed to be re-laid to original design (long story why) and the granite coped very well with removal. As I understand, while the mortar is still in a drying state, it is very likely to save the slabs. But do listen to what others will have to say, as I won't claim experience.

[DNgroundworks]

jeeez, that is awful ad Tony says one of the worst i have seen!

[lana]

guys, I think, yinhong got the message, let's not rub the sore more. I believe, the general opinion is to remove the slabs and start again with different contractor.
can anyone advise if the slabs are recoverable at all?

[London Stone Paving]

You have been put in a very stressful and difficult situation Yinhong and I dont envy you one little bit. That is an absolute shocker of a job and you need to understand how bad it is because you need to face this contarctor and tell him how bad it is. He's not going to be happy and I imagine he will fight his corner but listen to what Mick G said and do exactly that.

the slabs look absolutely fine and you will have no problems cleaning them up but I imagine its a job you will have to do yourself if you do tell the contarctor to sling his hook

[yinhong]

Thanks again everyone for your time and advice.

I can confirm that the slabs ARE removable (I checked for myself), very easily in fact, as they have not been laid flat and are loose.

I've had a word with Tony too, who was also very helpful. His advice is that I have to give this contractor a chance to fix the problems so what I should do is give this contractor a written statement of all the problems that concern me and request a written reply with his proposed solutions. Then, if he comes back with half assed solutions I can prove he is incompetent and cancel the job. My plan is to ditch this cowboy anyway and find a new contractor, but I feel this is a good way to proceed just in case I need to cover my ass.

So I'm drafting up my statement of problems now. As well as the DPC problem and the sloping issues, is there anything else I should be including? e.g. alignment, spacing between slabs, pattern (how SHOULD they be laid?), no sub base etc

Additional pictures below:

Top down view from upstairs bedroom:


Overview of slope directions. Red circle indicates the hump. The numbers correspond to the angles measured using my basic iphone spirit level (see below)


I took 13 pictures, but I'll just post 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8, which is where the hump is. The hump is peaks at picture 5 and slops dramatically down from picture 6.

4 -
5-
6 -
7 -
8 -

[Tony McC]

Under contract law (which applies even if there is no paper documentation), you are required to offer a contractor the opportunity to correct their own work.

However, when it is blatantly obvious that the contractor does not have the skills to effect proper and suitable remedial work, a way around this legal requirement is to get the contractor to first provide a written method statement outlining their intended actions. If this method statement details a suitable remedial plan, then the contractor should be allowed to proceed, but any variance from the method statement is a breach of contract, so you can get shut. In the majority of cases, the contractor is incapable or unwilling to produce a method statement, so your legal position is that you offered the chance for them to make good, but they proved unwilling or unable, so you can get shut.

It is, as others have said, a crap job. There is *so* much wrong with it, including many faults your layman's eye have not detected. The alignment is awful; there are crossed joints everywhere; the 'pattern' is completely inappropriate; there's no regulating sub-base so the laying course depth varies from place to place.....it's obvious this clown has overreached himself.

Sadly, we see this sort of thing all too often when a self-declared 'Landscaper' decides that the ability to lay turf green side up automatically qualifies them to lay paving. There are Lannscapers who can make a good job of paving, and there are paviors who can make a good job of the greenery, but I always preferred a specialist to a generalist, so I'd ask a pavior to lay my patio and a landscaper to plant the shrubbery.

I'll provide further comments by email......

[yinhong]

Thank you for your help and advice Tony, it's been invaluable.

I've told him to put the job on hold until we discuss the problems in person, on Friday afternoon (this is the earliest he said he can get to me, as he's on another job at the moment).

However, I suspect that at some point it will boil down to whether I should pay him, if anything, for the work he's done so far.

As well as the botched patio, he's de-weeded, laid down a membrane and put shingle on the small front garden of the house, area of 4 square metres (4m x 1m). And he's ripped up the turf down two sides of the back garden to create borders, and again laid down some membrane and shingle, and also installed a gravel board (8 metres long), which can be seen in the pictures in my original post.

I want to be prepared, for when that conversation happens. Any further advice?

[yinhong]

Well, the contractor came round this morning, unannounced.

I relayed (no pun intended) my concerns about the patio and he got really defensive, stormed off and said I'll be hearing from his solicitor.

I stopped him in time to hand my written letter of concerns but he immediately ripped it in half. I then asked him to reconsider his attitude so that we could try to peacefully resolve this, but then he said "I'm this close to punching you in the face," before zooming off in his truck.

In terms of what's written down, all we have is a short email from him as follows:

"please find quotation as discussed to lay slabs and take rubbish away and to supply sand and cement grass seed and top soil
Will be between £1800 £1950
Please don't hesitate to contact me with any queries"

I know, stupid and naive to agree to a job without a breakdown, but we've never done anything like this before and he was such a polite, friendly and seemingly professional guy. I know, I'm an idiot.

But does anyone think he has a case? Should we be worried?

[nry]

I'd invite his solicitor round to view the excellent work

Have you paid him yet?

[Tony McC]

Sadly, that's a pretty typical reaction from the cowboy element. Any professional contractor with a smidgen of integrity will listen to your concerns and patiently explain how they plan to proceed so that you are completely satisfied. The incompetent throw their toys out of the pram, threaten violence, and storm off muttering all sorts of nebulous threats.

The document he ripped up should be re-printed and sent to his address via registered post. This shows that you made repeated efforts to resolve the issue in an amicable manner.

I've sent further private advice by email.

He has a case, if he chooses to pursue the matter, but would he want his "work" examined by a court and reviewed by an independent assessor? He cannot claim that what he has done to date is of a workmanlike standard, he has threatened violence and then stormed off when asked to discuss the standard of his work. It's never safe to predict with absolute certainty how a court will react, but I would be very, very surprised if any court in the land considered the work we've been shown to be acceptable.

If he has any sense, he'll write off this one as a 'learning experience' and hopefully go back to taxi driving or scrap iron collecting or whatever his normal job is, because paving is definitely not his calling!

[lana]

oh, my sympathies are with you, yinhong! hope this will be resolved to your satisfaction soon! do keep us posted on the progress of this matter.

[lutonlagerlout]

£1800-1950 sounds wildly too cheap
I would have guessed at 3.5-4k for a proper job
anyway the cost is irrelevant ,the work is shoddy
LLL

[dig dug dan]

How did you choose this contractor? Does he have a landline and valid address?

[bodgeitandscarper]

He seems to have Bodged it and scarpered! That's a cheap price, just shows you cheap ain't best! He obviously won't be able to relay the slabs because he doesn't know what he is doing. What a shit position to be in!