A few questions!

[Forestboy1978]

I'm building a timber framed construction verandha on a customers house. I'm also laying a sandstone concrete bound patio.

I've never had to repair a concrete based patio. I hear it's quite difficult but I'm not sure if this is true as I can't see why it would be tremendously difficult.

Anyway my questions are why is it difficult or supposedly so and would you say just disc cut out the area that was damaged and re compact and relay.

If so would compacting in such circumstances be a nail biting affair or a no go entirely even with a small compactor. I.e would you manually compact to assure that no damage was done to surrounding area.

Last question.. what's the pros and cons for burying a 5x5 timber post in the ground as opposed to bolting it to the patio. It's only I'm starting the patio on Tuesday and the timber etc etc isn't arriving untill Friday so I have to patio around holes and wait and I'd rather just finish it. I'm just weighing up my options!

Cheers

[Forestboy1978]

sorry put this in the wrong area. Would someone be kind enough to move it please.

ta

[Pablo]

I'm confused when you say concrete bound do you mean base. Laying on concrete is a nightmare and it's unlikely you'll get the flags to stick so I would suggest a strong semi dry screed instead. Are you laying a new patio or sorting an old one thats failed. Also if you need to do the posts afterwards then best pave over the whole area and lift the flags then set the posts in. Paving around a hole will be a pain.

[Forestboy1978]

I use a 50/50 ballast and grit sand mix 7 to 1 with cement. I've never had a problem with it not sticking as long as I don't make the mix too dry.

The repair question is not anything I have to do or in the pipeline or whatever. I'd just like to know because I was thinking if one day they wanted to get rid of their verandha for example, if I had a post sticking through their patio how would they get it out and repair the patio. I'm just curious as to how easy or difficult it would be to take up the mortar/ concrete an sub base and relay.

Yes I figured patioing around holes would be a pain this is why I am considering bolting the post to the patio but I'm not sure it would look as good.

This is an important job for me cos one it's showing alot of different skills and the patio is not perpendicular either so lots of fancy cutting and 2 I like the couple, they are regular customers. I want this to look sweet!

[Pablo]

there's absolutely no need for ballast in the mix it makes it so much less workable and you have to order and handle 2 separate materials. Grit sand is ideal for paving and it would be so much less hassle and quicker. Bolting the wood to the paving would look poor especially if you used a metpost I'd either sink them or use an adjustable stainless steel foot.

[Forestboy1978]

ok thankyou!

I have used grit sand only before and found it LOTS easier I must say and had no complaints at all but I've been told by 2 people to use ballast so I have. I've not liked it that is why I started mixing it half and half all the while thinking I was cheating as well. I'll never learn to trust my instincts!

I've never seen a stainless steel foot. I'll look into it. If not I'll halt work untill the timber arrives and work the weekend. Annoying, the stones are here tuesday but apparantly 5x5 timber is a little bit awkward to source.

Thanks again

[lutonlagerlout]

you could make like a square brick pier with a hole for the post TBH though i hate doing stuff with the intention of changing it

the thing with any kind of timber is that it will rot/twist/warp/split over time to some extent
as pablo says those metposts are ugly
probably too far down the road but i prefer brick piers or some kind of steel pole for stuff like this
cheers LLL

[local patios and driveway]

For my money i would drill in to bottom of the post and then in to the paving and then insert a length of rebar, ive seen 8x8 posts rotted and snapped in the ground. Of course all of this is dependant on the design of the veranda.

Oh and the info is here dont listen to diy'ers telling you to add ballast to your mix, too many guessers out there, makes me mad

[seanandruby]

you could always box out where your upright posts are going to be, using plastic drainage cut to right height, or cordek.

[Forestboy1978]

Thanks very much for all your input. I must say this is an excellent site. Everyone is very helpfull!

LLL re the brick pillars...Are you saying sink the timber into the ground some way and then brick around the base? What you put put under the pillar base, concrete and scalpings?

Re wood. I hope you are wrong regarding the perishing as I would really like to build myself a timber framed home one day, or at least a hybrid part brick part timber frame dwelling. When I lived in the brecons I noticed hundreds of extremely old houses made of timber. I mean extremely old. One pub had it's original 1000 year old oak door so how is this possible?

Sean&Ruby I also like the idea of rebar for the potential to replace the timber if needed. Again, under these circumstances would you lay a thicker layer of concret at these points? I'm thinking around 6"!?

Ta

[local patios and driveway]

Timber underground will stay wet, thats what will cause them to rot, im not certain but i think you would be hard pushed to find a timber building sat on the ground, normally you would see a few brick or block courses for it all to sit on. As for an oak door again thats not buried in the ground and can dry out if it gets damp plus will have had years of maintenance of one kind or another.

[Forestboy1978]

I can't remember exactly how it's done but it look quite sustainable. I watched a video of fence post being inserted into the ground with a some kind of plastic membrane with sand inside and then sealed somehow at the top. Then the hole thing is bedded in concrete. It allows the owner to remove and replace the posts without digging the concrete out. Heard of that. I'll look it up again to refresh my memory!

[lutonlagerlout]

oak is a different case in point
"keep me wet or keep me dry,a thousand years I will survive" is an old saying referring to oak
i was thinking brick piers with the pergolas on top,so the piers would be maybe 2.1M high 600 deep footing?
i know people with pergolas and its a shame when 10 years down the line all the timber starts to rot as the vegatation starts maturing
LLL

[Forestboy1978]

I see, I misunderstood what you meant. I don't have the bricky skills to do that yet unfortunately!

I'm leaning in the direction of using rebar but I'm still not sure. I think I may just get this patio layed and think about this verandha while I'm doing it.

As usual I think I may have bitten off a little bit more than I can chew! Bit stressed!

[seanandruby]

I didn't recommend rebar, i recommended box out. If you go down the bar route, you will need stainless, or galvanised otherwise the rust will from the rebar will stain patio eventually.