Advice for customer, please. - Sub-standard patio

[countrywoman]

Hello all,

I would like to say that this site is a great source of information and I am hoping that tradesmen who read this site know what they are about.

We have just had an Indian sandstone patio laid and think that it is not laid correctly. I obviously cannot name the culprit as we have not settled the issue yet.

The 'builder' who laid it claims that he is the best there is but...there is no fall, although he claims that there is but was unable to find it when handed a level. It is laid too high and so has cut the bottom step of a flight of steps in half and ends up only 1 brick below dpc. There are other niggles, such as high edges and a manhole cover left at an angle. He has refused to re-do the job. (He has not been paid.)

It is really where we go from here.

We have spoken to a structural engineer, who has done work for us before, and he has suggested that we get a quote for rectifying the faults. But how do we find a good patio-person? Can this site provide contact details for people in our area or is this not allowed?

We do not want to keep the original man waiting for too long as he is sure to want some money, even for materials. The patio is just under 50m2 and we accepted a quote which was quite enough for a perfect job.

I look forward to hearing your comments.

[Carberry]

1 brick below DPC is wrong, best practice is 150mm below.
When you say there is no fall do you mean water isn't running off of it?

Legally you need to give the builder the opportunity to rectify the problem, notify him of your snag list in writing and give him a suitable time frame for fixing, maybe 2 weeks.
Office of fair trading

In the mean time you could get a couple of prices for fixing the work. We can recommend good hard landscapers in most areas.

The problem you have just now is you are up against the winter, you need problems fixed now before winter hits.

[lutonlagerlout]

Hi CW and welcome to the brew cabin
a picture tells a thousand words ,so a simple picture of the whole job will help us diagnose the problems
realist ically for a 50m2 sandstone patio you would be looking at £4500 +VAT f or a proper job everything included
did he not give you a quotation spelling out exactly what he was going to do?
sounds like he hasnt dug out enough/anything
the half a step is a pure trip hazard
I cant see how these issues can be rectified without ripping it up
regard LLL

[haggistini]

150mm below dpc is best practice. Some jobs have to be a little higher!

[Pablo]

CW because the step has been halved it sounds like he's laid it on top of the existing surface were you made aware that this was going to happen. It does sound like it should be totally redone but you have to give him the chance to rectify it before you go any further. If he doesn't do anything then another option is to ask him to remove his materials from your property within a certain time frame after which you will be disposing of them no claims court will find against you if the photos prove he was incompetant and made no effort to put it right. If it was agreed it was to be an overlay then you'll have to compromise and pay him for a proper sub base but personally he sounds like he shouldn't be let near it again. Put everything in writing and lets see a photo.

[DNgroundworks]

What they said ^^^, Photo, give the guy a chance, if you feel he is able, and any contact in writing.

[countrywoman]

Thank for your comments. I will try to upload some photographs.

We have spoken with the patio-person and he has refused point blank to take the slabs up and re-lay them to the correct height. He also maintains that the patio is laid as perfectly as is possible as he is the very best there is and we couldn't find a better. (?!)

Advice seems to be that we get a quote/quotes for rectifying the faults, which probably does mean taking everything up and starting again.

We had paid to have the area lowered to a reasonable level after construction work for our extension and the patio-person had quoted to lower the ground by 150cm "as necessary". It was "necessary" to lower it over most of the area with just a few low areas. We think that he used the chalk (we are on pure chalk) excavated for the flower beds to fill in any low spots rather than lower everything. The result is that the ground level is 1.5 courses too high. Patio-person argues that he got the ground level right. (Having said that, he argues a lot.)

Does anyone know a REALLY GOOD builder/landscaper, whatever, in the Salisbury area? It is not nice to have to ask someone to come in after a bodge job but we do need further opinions on the ground.

[London Stone Paving]

There are always two sides to the story but going on what you have said, the guy does sound unreasonable. It would be really good to see some photos though.

Email some photos to me and I will upload them
steven@londonstone.com

[lutonlagerlout]

pride comes before a fall
and this guys sounds like a right berk
the risers and treads on steps are very important as any deviation leads to stumbling and trip hazards
LLL

[darrenba]

Does anyone know a REALLY GOOD builder/landscaper, whatever, in the Salisbury area? It is not nice to have to ask someone to come in after a bodge job but we do need further opinions on the ground.

If you want I could come up and take a look - I'm only about 30mins from you.

[darrenba]

Paid a visit to Mr & Mrs Countrywoman today. Here's a few photos for discussion.

The general layout








The offending steps






The wonky inspection lid (for rainwater harvester tank)




Broken step




The falls are very minimal (bubble barely touches line) - certainly not as much as I usually have for riven paving.

The paving near the new extension is just about 2 bricks below DPC.

The paving near the old house is only 1 brick below DPC.

The retaining wall & steps weren't built by the paver but the builder who built the extension.

They've been partly spot bedded - can hear hollowness on 900x600's when tapped. The bedding is quite a strong grit sand mix.

Pointing looks like sand/cement but was gun pointed.

There's no Type1 subbase but the bedding was laid on wackered chalk.

They've been charged very good money for this. They've not paid anything yet. Materials came to approx £1k.

Comments and suggestions please

[DNgroundworks]

Dont really know what to say apart from it looks unfinished, just to look at the paving from here it doesnt look to bad, That manhole lid is a definate bodge though. To me it could do with more money spending on it to tidy the whole thing up. Did the guy say he would repair the step and refit a manhole lid/recess lid? why does the paving not go up to the property, stopping short all the way round?

[rab1]

Basically as Dan asked, was there a fallout before between parties?.

[London Stone Paving]

The paving looks well laid and well pointed. it is a bit high against the damp course but I assume he has left the gap to put some gravel in there. I think if all the beds were planted up and that manhole was fixed then it wouldnt look to bad. Issue of damp course will still remain though.

Its not as bad as i thought it would be.

Is there any wsy to resolve the damp course without ripping it all up?

[darrenba]

I think the issue that they are concerned about the most is the lack of fall. It is falling away (just) from the building. The area is quite shaded so are concerned about algae growth and potential slip hazard if it ices over. Admittedly we've not had much rain down here in the last few weeks to see how badly it pools or not.

The other issue is the steps being uneven risers now. The paving should have been much lower by the steps (which would have given the correct fall). They asked for the gap between the house and the paving for a decorative gravel edging. It could be cut wider to facilitate an Aco if that was necessary.