Coloured pointing - Pointing

[ibuild.phil]

hi there, can anybody help me? i done a patio in august 2010 at the height of summer. very hot during the day but a lot of rain at night. yellow natural effect slabbing so customer required yellow pointing. the method of application was as follows...

mixed building sand with cement in a 3 to 1 ratio and added yellow dye to the mix. added small amount of water so mix just about stuck together in hand and brushed the mix into the slab joints. firmed down by hand and added more mix. finally sprayed light mist of water to joints and trowelled off to a smooth finish. looked good to me so we went home. it rained very heavily overnight and customer wasnt happy with the result and the colour wasnt a deep enough colour....small round balls of cement on top of joints and some colour had been washed away so wanted the job redone. we obliged.

second time round we used washed sand to help enhance the colour and cement to 3 in 1 ratio. added double amount of dye as the previous day. slabs were about 85% dry so didnt add water but repeated the application as the previous day. brushed the mix into the joints, firmed down, added more and light spray of water before trowelling joints to a smooth finish. customer was happy with result and we got paid and left. I believe it rained again that night but only moderately but no return call from customer.

along came the fierce winter we had and upon defrosting the customer was on the phone to say the mortar is breaking up into sand and washing away.

firstly, have we used the wrong method for coloured joints and secondly does it sound like frost damage. we are adamant we havent cut corners or bodged it but customer disagrees. I am prepared to go back and redo for a third time but not at my cost and not using the same method of application. I would use the slower and riskier method of wet mortar and hope not to stain the slabs. am i right in asking the customer to foot the bill?????

[ilovesettsonmondays]

hi, coloured mortar is always a tricky one to get right. i think your going to have to bite the bullet once more and do it for nothing . the customer isnt happy with the job . dont brush it , point it properly with trowel . you wont go far wrong . if your worried about staining maybe use something to protect the slabs . you should be able to get the consistancy of the mortar correct so it doesnt stain i.e squeeze a bit of mortar you mixed into a ball , press onto hand if it leaves a stain , dry it up a bit more . washed sand is definataley the sand to use too .

[ibuild.phil]

To be honest I am not happy going back at my cost and I have told the customer so. I believe I am not in the wrong and have applied the mortar correctly, in the summer months and I am not in control of the weather. We dug it out and laid 8 inches of mot type 1 and laid the slabs on a full mortar bed and pointed it semi dry to avoid any issues with staining.

We used a builders skip and a midi skip more than anticipated, could not get original slabs customer chose so had to use a substitute which was £250 more than priced and customer refused to pay the extra, repointed it free of charge as he did not like the colour first time round although it did rain and that affected the mortar slightly. Am I being unreasonable to request that the customer pays to have it redone or is the best option to meet halfway on cost?

[ilovesettsonmondays]

half and half is a fair point . he cant really argue with that after you have paid out extra .

[ilovesettsonmondays]

too be fair you havent really pointed up properly reading through your post . if i pointed like that working on the streets i wouldnt be in a job .go to the craic section of this forum and watch the video on murphys on youtube post.

[ilovesettsonmondays]

if your scared of staining , you could always use a mortar gun . look at easipoint website . great stuff but expensive

[ibuild.phil]

cant find it. have you got a link for it?

[ilovesettsonmondays]

ive brought it to the top of the list on the craic for you .thats an extreme of pointing . 2 to 1 mix , because of the dreaded street cleaning machines

[ibuild.phil]

what are your reasons for saying we didnt point it correctly?

[ilovesettsonmondays]

maybe its just me .ive always pointed up damp /wet . at least then all the sand and cement you are putting in the joints is getting the sanme consistancy of water. if your brushing in and poking down and then adding more and putting a mist on top and then trowelling off , your only getting water on the top your joint . what slabs were they by the way

[ibuild.phil]

bradstone yorkvale antigue gold £21 sq mtr didnt look any better than the cheap shite to be honest. In my opinion the customer was very fussy. We charged £3400 for around 50-55 sq mtr slabbing, a bit of fencing/gate and a small dwarf wall 2 courses high under edge of slabs. For that price I threw in 2 recessed manhole covers, had to alter 3 downpipes, slabbed the front garden path, supplied an extra skip and a half and met him halfway on the extra cost of the slabs previously mentioned. I provisionally said 5-7 days to complete and it took us 10 days and after paving the lads etc I was left with about £450. I,m not complaining but i,m not paying to redo it!!!

[ilovesettsonmondays]

meet him halfway seems fair . you done lots of extra work. trying to get him to pay for it would hard . he only has to say i havent got what i paid for . your knackered then . at least if you go down the route of suggesting splitting the costs as you did him extra work for nothing he cant really say no if hes a fair man

[ibuild.phil]

what is an average cost per sq mtr these days to repoint it with a wet mix, taking care not to stain the edges of the slabs and would adding pva help the longevity of the pointing?

[ilovesettsonmondays]

just work it out on how long it will take to do . i'd think man hours rather than sq m . you've got to allow for getting old pointing out as you know as well . you might need to was it all down too , delaying pointing if any needs cutting out with saw.

[ilovesettsonmondays]

wash i meant^^