Advice on flag stains

[skaro]

Hi

We are currently having our drive replaced and we are unhappy with the quality of the majority of the flags that have so far been laid. I was hoping that someone on this forum might be able to offer us some advice as we are not sure if the people laying the drive are giving us the correct answers.

Basically we are having standard grey concrete flags laid. When the first few went down they had dark lines forming small squares on them where the straps from the packaging had been. The guys doing the work told us these stains would dry out over time, but looking more closely at the flags it seems that the strap marks are not just darker but almost indented into the flag - is this normal?

Secondly, some of the other flags have different coloured patches in the centre of them - again we've been told they are drying out and it may take months for them all to be a similar colour. Is this normal? These marks look almost like stains/grease marks. The edges are still wet looking and look like they will dry out, but the middle marks look different - they don't really look wet.

I've had a look on the forum already and read a bit about differential curing, but I'm just not sure if this is our problem and whether this is something we should put up with or whether we should be asking for these flags to be replaced. We did discuss at the outset that we weren't happy with the marks, but we were told that even if they went back to Jewson to buy more flags they would be the same.

Any advice would be gratefully received as we have no idea what the truth of the matter is.

Thanks,
Mike.

[rab1]

picture would help.

[skaro]

Haha yes, sorry - didn't think of that! I'll post some up in the morning when I can take a decent photo.

Thanks.

[lutonlagerlout]

more importantly than damp patches (which incidentally will dry out over time,its the concrete curing)
what are they laying the slabs on?
i have done a drive previously in *council *slabs but each one was bedded on 100mm of lean mix concrete
LLL

[skaro]

Morning!

Here are some photos of the square marks on the flags and also the flags with lighter grease like stains in the middle.







Thanks,
Mike.

[Tony McC]

It's a fairly typical combination of a bit of damp, with some efflorescence along with a smidgen of differential curing. In essence, it's entirely typical of that type of flag which is manufactured to be utilitarian and of a specific strength, rather than a thing of beauty. That's why they are used for public footpaths and areas of low prestige in the commercial realm.

In time, all of these problems will disappear, but it could take several months or even a couple of years. You have to counter this against the fact that you get what you pay for. If you want perfect, immaculate looking flags, you have to pay for them. You have bought a flag manufactured for performance rather than looks, and so are unlikely to get anywhere with any claim against the supplier/manufacturer.

Tough, I know, but your contractor should have made you aware of this when you selected the flags originally.

[skaro]

Thanks for the response. This is pretty much what our contractors have told us. Also had a chat with the manufacturers (Eaton) today who were really helpful and faxed me an information sheet on efflorescence.

In our naivety we just expected the flags would go down all the same shade and stain free from the start - but you live and learn.

Thanks again for your help.

[skaro]

Hi

I have a new issue with these same flags and need a bit more advice if anyone could kindly offer it. Having understood and accepted the efflorescence issue, we noticed that a fair few of the flags (probably 35-40%) have stones showing. When I say showing, they are on the surface of the flag and not covered with concrete. I raised this with Eaton and they have said there is nothing wrong with the flags.

Knowing nothing about concrete flags I do not know whether to accept this - the stones stand out a mile and to someone like me look damaged. If I went to Jewson or B&Q, I wouldn't buy flags with the aggregate showing as I would assume they were damaged. The flags aren't chipped and this isn't something the contractor has done to them.

A rep from Jewson (the supplier) came out and offered to cover the cost of our contractor lifting the flags that have been laid so we could purchase a different (non-Eaton) flag or blocked paving. Jewson has now removed this offer (less than a week later) because Eaton has sent a letter to them saying the flags are fine. Eaton has not sent out a rep to assess the drive, they sent out a trainee to take some photographs and I was told "don't ask him any questions as he's only been with us one week and doesn't know anything".

I'll post some photos later when I get home, but I am just after some independent guidance as Eaton and Jewson are now washing their hands of this and I am going to end up spending thousands on a drive I hate. If this is how the product should be then fine, we'll have to live with it, I just need to make sure we are not being taken for a ride.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

[lutonlagerlout]

be interested to see pictures of the whole drive as well as close ups
its very rare to see the aggregate in pressed concrete slabs,but as tony mcC said they are there for a purpose rather than to look real pretty
I have been laying bar faced slabs this week and they are used for a reason
if you have been running vehicles over them you may have no case as I am sure most slabs are NOT for vehicle use
post the pics and we will have a look
cheers LLL

[jonnyboyentire]

Is it just me or does the bedding not exactly look brilliant?

[Pablo]

No it's not just you Jonny the bedding looks very thin and possibly spotted. Also because they're butt jointed they'll spall and be a nightmare for growing weeds. As council greys go they don't seem to be of a great quality visually. Also the sub base doesn't look like well compacted type 1. There's no way they'll last if they're on a driveway.



Edited By Pablo on 1285267302

[lutonlagerlout]

exactly my thoughts on the 7th september
lets see the photies
LLL

[jonnyboyentire]

Yeehaa !

[skaro]

Hi

Thanks all - I'll take a few photos in the morning - it was too dark when I got in. The bedding is some kind of sand/concrete mixture as I understand it - the old base was dug out with a proper digger and then filled back in with whatever this new mixture is.

Thanks again for your replies - I never knew a driveway could be so stressful

Mike.

[Tony McC]

The bedding may well be less than brilliant but that's not directly affecting the appearance of the flags which, as I've already said, is absolutely par for the course when it comes to PCC utilitarian flags.

I can appreciate that skaro might not like the look, but this type of flag is not sold on its looks. If you want 'pretty' you buy a decorative (as in 'more expensive') flagstone.

Sorry, but you'll get nowhere with this one. The flags are exactly what they should be: plain, boring, unattractive flat squares of uncoloured concrete, with aggregate showing in places.