New tarmac drive - My new tarmac drive has puddles of water

[ronnie111]

what is the allowed tollerance the contractor says he can cut out areas and patch them up is this correct

[cookiewales]

what is the allowed tollerance the contractor says he can cut out areas and patch them up is this correct

am sure one off the tarmac boys will be along soon ???

[Tony McC]

On a private driveway, there is no tolerance of standing water, and bear in mind that any patching will stand out like the proverbial sore thumb.

[buddyt]

be careful with this one we had a drive done by a local contractor small puddles appeared 3 infact went to court surveyor passed the drive as puddles were very shallow ie only 7mm deep at worst

suprised us and cost us £300 on top for court fees and surveyor

[dave wilks]

can agree with the above we live on a private development built by persimmon several of our drives in the street started to sink a little, contractor came back and patched them we were not happy and continued to small claims court judge rules the repairs are fit for purpose and rules in favour of the contractor

[Tony McC]

That's what happens when they get a surveyor instead of a paving or surfacing specialist.

Back in the mists of time when I was doing my training, the standard used on public highways was a 1p coin. If the water in a puddle was deeper than the coin (3mm) the area had to be resurfaced.

I'm a bit out of touch with blacktop regs nowadays, but I'm pretty sure that a 7mm puddle would never pass muster.

[Tony McC]

Fit for purpose: I've come across this on a few occasions and it's possible to make a case that a residential driveway is more than a utilitarian structure that simply needs to be 'fit for purpose' but has to meet a minimum aesthetic standard as it is an improvement or adornment to a property.

Admittedly, it would be hard to make this argument on a new build where the builder/developer installs a blacktop driveway as an access and parking feature, but when a re-surfacing has been commissioned, the client almost always expects a high standard of finish that will enhance the value of their property, and not something that is simply 'fit for purpose'.

Again, it comes back to the comment I made in the previous post which seems to have been submitted almost simultaneously with that of dave wilks poster, surveyors are not always the best persons to make judgements on pavements which are specialist constructions outside their day-to-day remit. They may be fine commenting on vertical masonry, roofs, flashings or window casements, but very, very few of them have any practical training or experience with paving and even fewer with blacktop surfacing.

[dave wilks]

done a bit of research looks like the spec is + - 6mm does that mean 12mm overall?

[GB_Groundworks]

no it means can be high 6mm or low 6mm

[Dave_L]

Pics of the puddles would help - but there is no excuse for puddles on a new construction driveway.

Yes, you might have to deal with slack falls & levels but there is always a way of shaping the drive to get the water off it. This is where aco drainage is so so useful.

[dave wilks]

dave

does that mean if you pave a car park and their is a small puddle the client makes yoou rip up the entire car patk ?

[Dave_L]

What I meant there is no excuse for puddles on a NEW driveway - as falls and levels can be factored in etc - but on overlay work, it sometimes cannot be helped but it can be minimised by accurate regualting course work.

[Colin James]

I have had to research this my self and below are extracts from two British Standards.

BS 594-2:2003

10 Surface regularity
For machine laid work, the longitudinal regularity, and transverse regularity on straight cross-falls, of finished surfaces shall be such that the maximum depression, measured under a 3 m straightedge placed parallel to or at right angles to the centre-line of the carriageway, shall not exceed 5 mm for surface courses, 10 mm for binder courses and 14 mm for bases (roadbases).

BS 4987-2:2003
Coated macadam (asphalt concrete) for roads and other paved areas —
Part 2: Specification for transport, laying and compaction
When the coated macadam is laid on a surface prepared in accordance with Clause 5, the new road surface, on completion of rolling, shall conform to the required levels and shape within the tolerances given in Table 7.
Table 7 — Accuracy of finish


Coated macadam Maximum permissible depth of the gap beneath a 3 m straightedge used longitudinally or a template used transversely
Machine laid
mm Hand laid
mm

Base (roadbase) 25 25
Binder course 13 13
Surface course 7 10
NOTE 1 The finished surface should be laid as follows unless specified otherwise.
a) Cross-fall. In the case of roads with a straight cross-fall this fall should be not steeper than 3 % nor flatter than 2 %.
b) Camber. With roads to be cambered, the average fall of the finished surface from the crown to the channel should not be more than 3 % nor less than 2 %.
c) Longitudinal fall. Longitudinal drainage falls in the channel should have a gradient no flatter than 0.8 %.
NOTE 2 As a means of ensuring reasonable riding quality after patching operations the surface of the compacted patch should be flush with or slightly proud of the surrounding surface; it should not be left below the surrounding level, otherwise ponding will occur.

Regards,
Colin.

[dave wilks]

so it looks like 10mm is standard for hand lay, thats a big tollerrence, no wonder we lost our case

[rab1]

the problem with persimmon or any other large house builder is that 95% percent of the people buying from them know feck all about building regs and just accept what their told.

personally used to enjoy my chats with their (persimmon) site agent as he quoted "its within tolerance" too me on a regular basis. in the end they changed/repaired a lot of things but only once he found out i`ve been in the construction game for 20yrs & mrs rab is a charted surveyor.