Hair line cracks in flag pointing??

[beanlike]

I've been visiting this excellent website for a couple of years and must congratulate all those involved for creating such a professional, informative site.

The gist is that I am a self employed landscaper (aka jack of all trades!) and I do quite a lot of hard landscaping.
Currently I'm laying a small Indian sandstone patio and have noticed tiny hairline fractures appearing along the boundary between the flag and the joint. The cracks look like the pointing medium (damp, plasticised mortar @ 3:1) has shrunk. The pointing was carried out yesterday, which up here was hot and sunny, although I took care not to point until the evening when the area became shaded.
I have noticed that similar cracks appear when one or other numpties walks over the flag before it has cured but no foot traffic passed over the area.
It occurred to me that since the flags were still very warm that they may have shrunk as they cooled and this has caused the cracks....
Question is has anyone experience of this, will it compromise the pavement and is there a solution?
Ta!

[Suggers]

You,ve prob answered your own question - the ambient temp over last few days has been huge - even with plasticiser, I think everything's drying out too quick.
Had same prob internally, with new plaster between old timber beams - the client wants to hurry up and brings in heaters. Result is cracks everywhere & then complains....
Sounds like you've done it by the book - see if the pointing totally falls apart in the next couple of days - we must be due thunder & lightning as it's Glastonbury week-end !!

[Rich H]

Pointing sandstone in this weather is a nightmare. Even getting them to bond is difficult.

I soak the paving and let the slabs just dry off enough to start the pointing. That way they've had a good drink first. Every few metres of pointing, I then mist the completed area to keep the mix moist and then do it again once it's all done.

[topgrafter2007]

having read so many problems with regards indian paving and experienced some myself ive got to say it seems indian paving is one of the most difficult to lay. trouble is being a natural product it is affected in different ways compared to manmade products. people just assume that you can lay them in the same fashion as any flag. obviously you cant! there defo not for beginners... we stay away from them them mostly were we can. most lads round my area put in daft prices to avoid the jobs. having said that weve just completed a large project with them and took every precaution poss, hopefully they will be ok!??! i rekon if you took into account every indian patio/drive laid im sure the % of problems compared to other paving types would be massive. payback from the RAJ!! lol

[msh paving]

The best way to point is with romex or gtfk, brush it in wash it off easy as that MSH

[topgrafter2007]

that stuff really that good???

[msh paving]

knocks the spots off sand and cement,theres lots off posting on hear about it
http://www.pavingexpert.com/pointing.htm

MSH

[Rich H]

If it wasn't such a pain to get hold of I wouldn't use anything else.

[Tony McC]

Why are you having problems, Rich? I was in that Germany at a BIG meeting for all the Romexians from all over the world a couple of weeks ago (I'll be putting summat on the News page tomorrow) and while I admit that there have been distribution problems with Romex over the last few years, the current set-up is second only to the Germans. And NCC who distribute the equally excellent GftK jollop have a next-day courier service for anyone who isn't served by a local stockist.

Annoyingly, I have a list of all the stockists in mainland Britain but I don't have permission to publish it for reasons that completely escape me. I keep badgering the data controller to allow me to put it on the site, but he keeps saying no!

However, with the usual exceptions for Mid-Wales, Devon & Cornwall, and Scotland north of the central belt, there is now a pretty good distribution network in place and anyone working in one of the major conurbations really shouldn't have any problems getting hold of the stuff.

[Rich H]

I've resisted telling the story but seeing as you've asked! I needed a lot of Rompox and was advised by the master distributor to buy it direct from them. About 2 dozen calls, 4 broken delivery promises, 10 weeks and countless new grey hairs later I got the stuff. I got a good price but it's not an experience I'd care to repeat.

[lutonlagerlout]

i would like to know why the merchants dont just stock it?
i am sick of telling them that geo&%^ is rubbish,i have even written down the name of romex for them but still zilch!

surely it cant be that hard to stock quality products?
LLL

[msh paving]

LLL ,i'm led to belive the like's of TP, jewsons ,build centres, get a kick back for stocking that geofiz rubbish from feb as a exclusive deal ,same as you i have asked the question why and that was a manager at TP's answer.makes no sense to me but you need to think off the shareholder's divi.....lol MSH

[worldofpaving]

MSH is right, often there are turnover bonus schemes in place, as I clearly recall, it's a far from simple business trying to get product onto the nationwide BM's shelves.

Wafer thin margins are further eroded by minimum order sizes, delivery costs, even outer packaging (originally because they had to pay to dispose of it, now this plus the environment), extended payment terms and, when the product is from the Eurozone, the volatility of the euro and the pound.

This can sometimes be compounded by product claims, (it's just too easy for the counter staff to keep their customer happy and throw perfectly good product back at the supplier) and the costs of having to provide support and tech advice that large BM's, like supermarkets, are often not equipped to provide.

This having been said, if you manage to negotiate all of these hurdles, it can still be rewarding for a manufacturer to supply the majors and I hope that the show can play a role in bringing a lot of good products and companies to the attention of the big buyers.

Best,WOP

[Davesmate]

The problem is easily solved - go for the GftK mortars from NCC Streetscape (www.nccstreetscape.co.uk ) or call 01257 266696, speak to Dave or Gary and get next day delivery almost anywhere in the UK

[Tony McC]

I have to back up what "Davesmate" says: NCC Streetscape are exceptionally professional and I've never known them not to return a call or to ignore a genuine enquiry.

Part of the problem with distribution via BMs is the cost. As many of you will know, these epoxy jointing mortars ain't particularly cheap. They're damned good, they're quick, they're clean, they're idiot-proof, but they ain't cheap. Now, if you take a typical price of, say, 50 quid for a pack and then ask the BMs to flog the stuff, they will immediately bang on their standard 35% which bumps up the price to almost 70 quid per pack.

You know and I know and they know that as 70 quid, it will be all but impossible to sell, so they put pressure on the distributor to reduce the cost (and thereby the distributor's profit margin) which is all well and good is the BM is offering any form of added value to the product in terms of support or discount for bulk orders, but they don't.

So, for the time being, the best deal for all of us is to let the official distributors put it out onto the market, make their modest profit margin, but endure the fact that you can't pick it up at just any old BM or DIY shed.

What many contractors are finding is that it's better for them to buy in a pellet of the stuff and keep it in their yard/lock-up, taking what they want, when they want from stock. All of these products tend to have a very good shelf-life and are reasonably well-packaged, so storage shouldn't be a problem, and the bonus is that, if you buy by the pallet-load, you get an even better price!