Cowboy builder

[TheRobster]

Not strictly a drainage issue this but seems to be a fair few people on here who know about building in general so thought it worth asking for advice. The following has not happened to me but a friend of mine, so I'm hoping people can offer some advice.

-------------
I am in a right mess and really worried, hoping someone on here might be able to help me out.

I bought a house a while ago, which was a bit scruffy but OK. I lived there for a bit then decided it would be nice to extend the kitchen a little. Hired a builder through recommendation from a friend, got a quote, got the work done, lots of banging about and cold and inconvenience but it got done and I was happy with the result.

The work comprised -

Getting the roof fixed. It WAS part tiled (ridge) a small part felt and part corrugated plastic - apart from the tiled part it was leaky, uninsulated and in a poor state. My fridge, freezer and washing machine were all put where the original points and plumbing were, in the corrugated plastic bit which was a separate room next to the kitchen.
It is NOW part ridged and tiled, part felted, with good insulation and a skylight - but is higher than it was so it fulfils building regs.

Knocking down the walls between the kitchen and the plastic roofed bit, and the main house and the plastic bit.
Putting in partition wall, door and window between the main house and the new larger kitchen, and another partition wall and door between the kitchen and a smaller back room.

Building a new brick pillar and fitting a double-glazed door at the back of the new small wall, on top of where the old back wall, door and window were.

Making the electrics safe (it was on a spur now it's on a ring, apparently, and apparently that's safer and correct), putting in a couple of new sockets and new lights (spots) because there's a new ceiling.

Making the drains and water safer and more sensible, there was an open drain inside the plastic roofed bit now the drainage all runs into an outside drain, and the sink and dishwasher plumbing are both together and in a different place.

Digging up the floor, putting in insulation and damp proof under new concrete, and tiling it.


I am quite sure that all the work done has been done to the proper specifications and has made the house safer. However, the builder did not get building regs in (which he said was not really necessary because there was no change to the dimensions of the house, so to speak) and does not have electrical certification to do work in kitchens. When he quoted, he said he would get a friend to do the electrical work who is certified - then decided part way through to do the work himself and get his friend to commission - then denied saying any of this when I queried it when the work was complete, and got really arsey about it - basically he under-quoted and is mad about being out of pocket. And really stupidly, I didn't get any of it in writing.

And now, of course, I need to sell the house....

Added complication is that I had to get damp-proofing work done, and the certificate shows the old house layout. The new layout exposes one small section of wall that was not exposed before. If the survey shows damp in that wall, and the buyer went to the same damp-proofing guy that I did, and he noticed that the wall on his plan diagram isn't there any more etc. and happened to comment on it...

Jesus, what a mess. I am so stupid, I should have made sure I got it in writing and got it done by someone reputable, but I was really skint at the time and the guy seemed honest and reliable - and to be fair I think he did the right stuff, just without the right bits of paper.

I'm sorry that's a really long and complicated post but I just wanted some advice on what to do to get out of this horrible mess. I could get the damp-proofing checked and corrected if necessary and provide a new certificate, but how much of this was actually outside of regulations, how bad is it, and how likely is it that anyone will notice?

Sammy
-------------------

The main issue as far as I know is that a new roof has gone on, and it probably weighs a fair bit more than the old roof, but the builder only put new foundations in for the exterior wall. The roof beams which run towards the interior wall (i.e. the dividing wall between Sammy's house and next door's house) are essentially just sat on top of the wall, so there's no way to know what's going on with the existing foundations, i.e. whether or not they are deep enough.

If Sammy tries to sell the house as-is, are there going to be a lot of problems? E.g. with HIPS packs, would she need to declare the work she's had done, and the potential issues with it? (And the fact there's being no building inspector to look at it!)

I should clarify that the work wasn't really an extension, more of a renovation since the house is the same size (plan area). The idea was to re-do the kitchen, which has been enlarged by including a lobby area that was next to it, by taking the roof off both and putting a new roof in to make one room. But the overall plan dimensions of the house are the same.

[flowjoe]

Robster

Ive been out of this section of the trade for some time so i can`t really give direct advice on planning etc.

I do a lot of work with estate agents (or at least i used to) and was reliably informed that one well know agents had been asked for the grand total of two home buyers packs since they came into force.

Unfortunately for your chum with the market being as it is at the moment any surveyor ( and there are plenty of newly trained and not very busy ones) will be all over the place like a rash. May be worth having an independant survey carried out and using the current lean times to put stuff right even if that means retrospectively.



Edited By flowjoe on 1218658931

[acechadwick]

Robster...first of all don't panic. There is an old saying "Never explain"
You are in danger of spilling your guts to the surveyor, who if the 20 or so I have had looking round the houses I've sold , notice diddly squat.
Allegedly!....this would be the time to play dumb.
It was like that when you moved in.
No you have no idea where the damp proof certificate is.
If there is no boundary alteration to the original deeds then no one is going to know.

These HIPS have got everyone thinking that they now have to sell a house in perfect condition.

Nothing has changed. People will still buy houses and uncover all manner of horrors when they move in.
All that will probably happen is that the surveyor may uncover some damp whereupon the purchaser will probably ask for some money off.
Let's be honest they are going to do that even if it's perfect.
And if it's just a mortgage valuation this is how it will read.
There is evidence of some movement consistent of houses of this age.
Some evidence of damp was found in the extension wall.
A bog standard valuation.

Do you think the country is full of people who have never had a cash only builder/ my mate did it/ I had a go myself?
Er no!
Just say nothing, act totally unconcerned and if questioned act dumb...."Ooh I haven't the faintest idea"

Next time you will know to get work done by reputable companies and get appropriate documentation.
But don't worry...are you a Virgo by any chance!!

Disclaimer...All of my properties have appropriate documentation.....what RSJ ????

[Rich H]

Hmmm. I would certainly get a qualified electrician in to test the circuits and provide certification. There are considerable liability issues associated with uncertified electrics.

[Dave_L]

I'd agree, plead ignorance!

[matt h]

Whilst pleading ignorance may seem to be the simplest answer, you may be required to provide the necessary certificates,if the persons buying your property are astute and request them. I f you fail to declare any provision, you could be held liable in law to put them right, or they could be entitled to a reduced purchase price. Best to obtain aany necessary certs now , and then everything is clear to all parties.

[lutonlagerlout]

Hmmm. I would certainly get a qualified electrician in to test the circuits and provide certification. There are considerable liability issues associated with uncertified electrics.

rich as i am sure you know,stuff that was perfectly legit 2 years ago fails part 17 of the latest NIEC standards.
Every job we go on to now ,if they need the tiniest bit of electrical work doing, turns into a nightmare,because the sparks cannot just connect up to existing like they used to
LLL

[Rich H]

Can't even put in 12V deck lights now without cert. You're right, it's OTT but as I tell my customers (who try to cajole me to do it) I can be liable for £5k fine if prosecuted.

[danensis]

The reply for the electrics is "I understand that the wiring complied with the relevant regulations at the time it was installed, but you can get in your electrician to check it, if you wish".

As for dampcourses, see http://www.askjeff.co.uk/content.php?id=3 and
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/propert....p23.xml

[TheRobster]

Thanks for the replies.

Re the electrics. Sammy is going to have a qualified electrician check them out so we don't anticipate any problems there.

Other issues are things like foundations, which are in there but how do we prove that? I saw them go in but it's just my word. Also things like insulation. Again, I saw this go in and builder stated it was compliant with regs, but since no building inspector saw it, how do we prove it? Or doesn't it matter too much?

Basically we don't think there is anything wrong with the build quality (the builder is actually a master builder so we assume he knew what he was doing). However it's just a case of what we can prove, which is not much really.

[acechadwick]

An estate agent told me today when I was having one of my properties valued that out of 200 buyers 2 asked for the HIPS pack.
I think you are in the problem area of a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and that it will be best to lose what knowledge you do have, and just, as you say, trust your builder.
The worst that can happen is that a surveyor will "suggest" to the purchaser that things are checked out and trust me most people will avoid any extra expense unless there appears to be a glaring problem.
Humans are trusting saps. You gotta love 'em!
Regs change all the time and it is nigh on impossible to cover all your bases.
As long as someone is not going to blow themselves to kingdom come I would just put your house on the market and relax.
Cos no one's buying anything anyway!!!!