Shared storm drains - help! - Blocked/missing drains in out road

[SallyB]

I am an avid reader of your forums ever since we discovered a big problem with disposal of storm water in our road.... I know that with all the experts that post here, someone might be able to help.

(Sorry, this may be a long explanation)

I have recently done a great deal of detective work to discover a shared storm sewer that runs along the back gardens of all the houses on one side of our cul-de-sac. To try and explain what is happening, I will number the houses from 1 (at the highest point) to 8 at the end of the drain run.

We live at house number 3 and (in a whole other story) have just replaced our 6 inch pipe along the back of our property. So, houses 1, 2 and 3 all have a free flowing 6 inch pipe, and a catch pit in the garden.

Houses 4, 5 and 6 also have catchpits, and my husband has rodded through their pipes to discover that they don't seem to be collapsed or removed, however they are extremely silted up and require proper cleaning. (The houses are 50 years old).

Number 7 has a catchpit, although we know from previous history that for at least 6 years there has been a pump in this catch pit, pumping water to the foul system. The owner who set this up has moved on.

The Council plans (which to house number 7 seem 100% accurate) show that the water flows to a catchpit in house 8 and from there the water is carried through more pipe to a culvert in the road.

Our very civilised residents have all met with Dyno-Rod and agreed to pay for a day's work cleaning the pipe; the way it was sold to us was that as we had a system that ended at a culvert, we would be able to 'wash' the silt and mud down stream and no need for a tanker to remover the materials.

So - on Friday Dyno-Rod arrived at 9am. By 10am they had cleaned the entry and exit pipes in house 8, and were convinced that the pipes only extended 6 inches out of the catchpit. They could see the clean far edge of the pipe and said that when jetting they did not see any evidence of broken pipe. Also, the drain contracter said that the bricks in the catchpit at house 8 were not fully mortered and that meant it was actually a soakaway.

As there was no pipe in from house 7, the drain man felt that 7 was the end of the run, and that house 8 was independent of the system.

All work stopped, and there is talk now that houses 7 and 8 need to lay pipe to complete the system, and that a tanker needs to be employed to clean houses 4 5 and 6.

The questions we have are:

Why would such a carefully laid system suddenly stop and change into a soakway (Dyno-Rod say that builder probably ran out of money, but he was a very reputable local builder who built hundreds of houses in this area).... and secondly, would it be normal practice all those years ago to site a soakaway 6 metres from the house when it would serve rainwater from 7 houses?

If in the worst case scenario, we have do have to lay the pipes, how on earth will we go about joining them into the culvert, which by all accounts is a hugh 4ft diameter pipe!?

Something just doesn't add up.

At the moment we are pumping from our catchpit to the foul drain until such time that we can send our water downstream.

I have been fighting for so long to get this situation sorted and suddenly feel it is all too much - any ideas would be REALLY gratefully received.

Backgound info about the site - we are very low down at the bottom of a hill, and soil is mainly clay.

Thanks for reading.

[flowjoe]

Firstly i would investigate the system at No 8 to confirm if this is connected to the culvert or a soak-away. The system you decribe sounds as though it was intended to be heading to an outfall but it wouldn`t be the first time that things changed at the last minute (if the local authority inspector had his back turned).

The installation of a pump in one of the catch pits suggests that earlier investigatons came up with the same conclusion as your contractor and a cheap and quick fix was found.

You will need a qualified contractor to lay any new pipework and make a connection into the culvert, if the system is deep a pumped system may be a cheaper option. Remember that the costs should be shared by all the parties that use the system and not just between the last two whos gardens will have to be disturbed as part of the works.

[SallyB]

Thank you. When you say investigate the system at number 8, do you mean we need to find out where her personal downpipes end up? There are smaller 3" inlet pipes into her catchpit which may mean her water goes directly into there. The Dyno-Rod man says that the 6" of pipe coming away from the catchpit were probably put there to fool the building inspectors.

I may be particularly cynical, but I just can't accept that for 40 years plus, number 7 in the row was receiving all the storm water from the rest of the road. We have large shallow roofed bungalows here and the amount of water coming off them is substantial.

As for the rest of the road contributing, we were told that we had to replace the removed pipe in our own garden ourselves as this wasn't a shared issue. Environmental Health stated that collapse or root ingress would be shared.

(Bit of background for you - we recently discovered that an extension built before we moved in had footings along the line of this drain. We knew we had a water problem in the house so husband cut inspection holes in the floor, and on the first rainy day we had a look and the underfloor void was sucking in water from 4 houses 1, 2, 3 (ours) and 4, due the the builder removing a 4ft section of pipe that he must have damaged when he dug the footings. Building control, despite a huge effort from me deny ANY responsibility. We had 8" deep dirty water under the whole house. Huge insurance claim going through for new floors etc. Little did we know that this must have been happening every time it rained for the last 5 years. The day we discovered it we pumped out more than 10k gallons of water.)

So you can see why I am feeling more than a little worn down by the whole drains thing!!

Sally

[flowjoe]

I misread the original post as Number 8 not being connected to the system.

The only advice i can give is that all catch pits be fully cleaned out and all incoming and outgoing pipe work be surveyed, traced and accounted for. Make sure all silt is removed from the base of the pits in case the outlet is buried. This will confirm if the system is connected to the culvert or not.

The ownership and responsibility of the systems is simple enough, whoever uses a system at the point of a defect has to contribute. The type of defect whether that be a collapse or root ingress does not alter the ownership of it. If the pipewok you had replaced in your garden was used by properties upstream then they should of contributed.

Did you pursue your insurers with regard to the drain repairs ?

HTH

[SallyB]

We did pursue the insurers but apparently as the pipe was removed by a builder, it was classed as 3rd party damage and not covered. The £100 for a 4m length of pipe and some pea grit was the least of our worries tbh.

Dyno Rod did not inspire any confidence in me on Friday. In House number 7, they told me there was no in and out pipe, I peered into the catchpit and showed them immediately the half moons showing just above the silt! Beggers belief really.

My husband has been nice enough to clean out everyone's catchpit as far as number 6; number 7 however seems to want to be more independent but seems to have no sense of any urgency about anything.

I am tempted to contact EH again and ask her to issue her notice now, something she said she would do if necessary. She has written to all householders informing them of their responsibility, I think she needs to force their hand now. I can't bear another winter with it not sorted, and our house can't be worked on until drain run is in tact

Thanks for your comments, I am really interested. I guess part of me just wants to talk it over with people who know what they are talking about.

By the way, we live near Southampton if anyone fancies tendering for the work!

[flowjoe]

A bit too far for me i`m afraid Sally, but i will be talking to a contractor in Bourmouth over the next day or so and i will see if he`s interested.

Speak to the EH officer and see who they use/recommend, likewise speak to someone involved with the local housing stock as they will have a list of decent contractors.

[seanandruby]

it has been known for pipes to be connected, only to be ripped out and then not reconnected by other service layers IE, gas leckie, water . as joe says cathpits need to be emptied and pipework CCTV'd to prove where they run to.

[SallyB]

Well have spoken to the people at house 7 now and they agree with us that they do not wish to take Dyno-Rod's diagnosis as read. They did jet the pipes in and out of House 8 and showed me the cam pics, but we have decided that we are going to excavate and find the pipe out of number 7 to discover where it ends up. nce we know if it goes as far as the boundary with number 8 then we can take it from there. Who knows what we will uncover.

We are awaiting the bill from Dyno-Rod who actually didn't do anything they set out to do.

You know, this site is so good that I can actually talk drains to people that are vaguely interested - colleagues at work ask how it's all going then within 30 seconds have that glazed over look!

[Mikey_C]

Why would such a carefully laid system suddenly stop and change into a soakway (Dyno-Rod say that builder probably ran out of money, but he was a very reputable local builder who built hundreds of houses in this area)

Can you get hold of said local builder, he may remember the installation and maybe even which contractor did it? He may tell you to get stuffed but i'm thinking you have tried quite a few things and may be willing to give this a stab as well.

[SallyB]

House was built in 1958, I hadn't even thought of looking for the old builder. I am away on holiday from Thursday night, so all thoughts of drains will have to be shelved for 10 days. Just hope it's sunny whilst we are gone.

[matt h]

Iam in Gosport, so give me a call..07831226826

[matt h]

Iam in Gosport, so give me a call..07831226826, or email n.hannigan@ntlworld.com