I am re-laying my back path starting tomorrow.
I did originally ask a professional to do it, but he turned out to be a cowboy, but that’s another story.
I asked him to make the slope at a safe gradient as I had had a go at the path myself and had got to the point where I could not spend much more time on it. I now find that I have to.
When he did the work I felt that the slope was a little on the steep side, but couldn’t understand why.
After walking on it for a week now I have realised that the slope comes up sharply then levels out fairly quickly giving the impression that the slope has a bulge in it.
As the path joins another path which also runs down hill, it is difficult to gauge the safe angle so I have to look at it from the bedroom window to get a better idea before I start.
Is there a recommended gradient, maybe a British Standard for paths, if so could you tell me what it is?
I have asked the man to come out and rectify the problem and the extra problem of a now uneven path after just THREE days, but he wont come out and he wont honour any agreements we had. I am doing something about that, but the path is not safe enough for me to leave it, until he is made to fix it.
Thanks
Gradient of paths
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84-1093879891
The maximum gradient that is allowed for disabled access is 1:12 - we use this a standard on all public footpaths because we assume (and rightly so) that disabled folks (including meself) have as much right to use any given footpath as an able-bodied sod. I'm not in a wheelchair (Thank God!) but even 1:12 is quite steep and presents a challenge to me. 1:20 is much more accommodating. :)
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68-1093879224
Thanks for that Tony, I haven’t got round to lifting the path yet as we were advised not to, until we can obtain more advice on where we stand legally with the company who laid it.
Today when I came home from work I was inspecting the path so that I could write up a snag list/book to the company for them to fix in a reasonable time. My neighbour and I were walking up and down it looking for high and low spots and any extra wide gaps, which should not be there when I stood on the edging and sunk.
I looked more closely at the spot I had been standing on and found that the edging was loose. My neighbour picked a block up to reveal that the sand underneath was only sand and not even compacted. He was able to poke his finger in it with no trouble then picked up the sand like it was the topping to an Apple Crumble. We looked at the rest of the edging to discover that it all appeared to be the same. The cement haunching upto the top of the blocks was only icing, most of the haunching is in fact soil. I have a call with Trading Standards in the morning.
I wish that I could say who the company is, but can’t until the company is proved to be a cowboy outfit.
Out of interest we worked the gradient out to be 1:2.82 and we did ask that the slope be of a gradient that could take a wheelchair! The path is only 9m x1m I would have thought that he would have coped with that easily as he allegedly does block paving almost daily (he advertises himself a block paving specialist in the yellow pages). The man who came to do the quote also said this was a small job.
Today when I came home from work I was inspecting the path so that I could write up a snag list/book to the company for them to fix in a reasonable time. My neighbour and I were walking up and down it looking for high and low spots and any extra wide gaps, which should not be there when I stood on the edging and sunk.
I looked more closely at the spot I had been standing on and found that the edging was loose. My neighbour picked a block up to reveal that the sand underneath was only sand and not even compacted. He was able to poke his finger in it with no trouble then picked up the sand like it was the topping to an Apple Crumble. We looked at the rest of the edging to discover that it all appeared to be the same. The cement haunching upto the top of the blocks was only icing, most of the haunching is in fact soil. I have a call with Trading Standards in the morning.
I wish that I could say who the company is, but can’t until the company is proved to be a cowboy outfit.
Out of interest we worked the gradient out to be 1:2.82 and we did ask that the slope be of a gradient that could take a wheelchair! The path is only 9m x1m I would have thought that he would have coped with that easily as he allegedly does block paving almost daily (he advertises himself a block paving specialist in the yellow pages). The man who came to do the quote also said this was a small job.
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84-1093879891
Just because someone claims to be a 'Block Paving Specialist', it doesn't mean that they are actually any good at it! Anyone can claim to be a Block Paving Specialist, or a Tarmac Specialist or any other form of Home Improvement Specialist because there is no regulation of the industry in this country. You can set up a company this afternoon and claim to be a 'specialist' - who would stop you?
For years and years I've been banging on that the Home Improvement Industry needs some form of regulation, so that only accredited, genuinely-skilled, fully-insured, tax-registered individuals, partnerships and companies can trade in the industry. Obviously, my main concern is for the Paving industry, but the same could and should apply to double glazing, roofing, painting & decorating etc...
It is the fact that this is such a free and unregulated industry, with access to large handfuls of untraceable cash, which attracts the cowboys, the rogues and the thieves. There are some moves by individual Local Authorities to make life more difficult for the unscrupulous and unskilled, and they are welcome moves, but they are flea-bites on an elephant - what is really needed is certifiable regulation through a scheme of registration and assessment, and until that comes about, we will continue to hear horror stories such as yours. :(
Any luck with Trading Standards?
For years and years I've been banging on that the Home Improvement Industry needs some form of regulation, so that only accredited, genuinely-skilled, fully-insured, tax-registered individuals, partnerships and companies can trade in the industry. Obviously, my main concern is for the Paving industry, but the same could and should apply to double glazing, roofing, painting & decorating etc...
It is the fact that this is such a free and unregulated industry, with access to large handfuls of untraceable cash, which attracts the cowboys, the rogues and the thieves. There are some moves by individual Local Authorities to make life more difficult for the unscrupulous and unskilled, and they are welcome moves, but they are flea-bites on an elephant - what is really needed is certifiable regulation through a scheme of registration and assessment, and until that comes about, we will continue to hear horror stories such as yours. :(
Any luck with Trading Standards?
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68-1093879224
Spoke to trading Standards at lunchtime.
They wanted me to ask them back to fix it!!!
I told them what I thought of that idea and said that I had no confidence in them at all. Personally I would rather let Tom and Jerry have a go first.
I explained that I had sunk and that the majority of the edging appeared to have no foundation at all, only when I told him that the haunching was just soil with an icing of cement, did he get my point. He then agreed with me completely. I am to write a letter to the company, Recorded Delivery, stating that I am unhappy (understatement) with the work and that as he had failed to put the edging in properly I no longer had any faith in the work carried out. I will be putting in the letter all the short comings of the path and tell him that we are in the process of getting quotes and will be recovering the cost from him.
I will let you know how I get on.
I want to put the name, but know I can’t at this stage, until a judge declares them cowboys :(
(Edited by Dwayne at 6:53 pm on July 8, 2003)
They wanted me to ask them back to fix it!!!
I told them what I thought of that idea and said that I had no confidence in them at all. Personally I would rather let Tom and Jerry have a go first.
I explained that I had sunk and that the majority of the edging appeared to have no foundation at all, only when I told him that the haunching was just soil with an icing of cement, did he get my point. He then agreed with me completely. I am to write a letter to the company, Recorded Delivery, stating that I am unhappy (understatement) with the work and that as he had failed to put the edging in properly I no longer had any faith in the work carried out. I will be putting in the letter all the short comings of the path and tell him that we are in the process of getting quotes and will be recovering the cost from him.
I will let you know how I get on.
I want to put the name, but know I can’t at this stage, until a judge declares them cowboys :(
(Edited by Dwayne at 6:53 pm on July 8, 2003)
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84-1093879891
The normal procedure is that you are obliged to offer the contractor 'first refusal' at correcting their own work, except in those exceptional cases where an undeniable breach of trust or dangerous structure is involved. They are normally allowed what is described as a 'reasonable period' to undertake and satisfactorily complete the required remedial works, but no-one is sure just what constitutes a 'reasonable period'. To me and you and TS, it's probably 7 days, but I know of some contractors that have successfully dragged it out for months.
Make a full list of each and every defect, and, if possible, take photo's of the problems so that they are all fully documented. Give the contractor 7 days to respond with their plan of action, and make it clear that if trhey fail to respond, you will authorise remedial work to be carried out by a competent contractor at their expense. Send it recorded delivery, and from this point on, keep all discussions on paper. Don't fall into the telephone promise trap, where they keep fobbing you off with worthless verbal promises that never materialise but which they can deny as you have no verifiable record of the discussion. If they call, record the call (after informing them of you doing so, naturally!) or insist that they make all proposals in writing.
You could also ask TS to check on their VAT registration and their Employers and Public Liability Insurance, just to put the wind up them! :)
Good luck - if you want to whisper the name of the offending party to me in an email or by the Messenger Service above, I won't let it go any further. :)
Make a full list of each and every defect, and, if possible, take photo's of the problems so that they are all fully documented. Give the contractor 7 days to respond with their plan of action, and make it clear that if trhey fail to respond, you will authorise remedial work to be carried out by a competent contractor at their expense. Send it recorded delivery, and from this point on, keep all discussions on paper. Don't fall into the telephone promise trap, where they keep fobbing you off with worthless verbal promises that never materialise but which they can deny as you have no verifiable record of the discussion. If they call, record the call (after informing them of you doing so, naturally!) or insist that they make all proposals in writing.
You could also ask TS to check on their VAT registration and their Employers and Public Liability Insurance, just to put the wind up them! :)
Good luck - if you want to whisper the name of the offending party to me in an email or by the Messenger Service above, I won't let it go any further. :)
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68-1093879224
We spoke to Trading Standards again having written to the company as well. We sent the company a letter with pictures of how bad the path was and copied it to Trading Standards.
One paving company came out and the first words he said was, if he had any idea what he was doing he would be unable to do it so badly on purpose.
Trading Standards told us to us write to the company and tell them, that we are asking someone else to do the work and will be reclaiming the money. We wrote our letter and have had the path relayed.
The path is now even and the slope is safe, our garden is not long enough to make the 1:12 gradient, but at least you can walk down it and so can my mother now. We have also achieved a gradient which a wheelchair can safely be wheeled up and down although the wheelchair user would have to be assisted.
We have told the first company that we are reclaiming the money from him and are in the process of filling in the court forms. Trading Standard and the Court say we have a good case.
One paving company came out and the first words he said was, if he had any idea what he was doing he would be unable to do it so badly on purpose.
Trading Standards told us to us write to the company and tell them, that we are asking someone else to do the work and will be reclaiming the money. We wrote our letter and have had the path relayed.
The path is now even and the slope is safe, our garden is not long enough to make the 1:12 gradient, but at least you can walk down it and so can my mother now. We have also achieved a gradient which a wheelchair can safely be wheeled up and down although the wheelchair user would have to be assisted.
We have told the first company that we are reclaiming the money from him and are in the process of filling in the court forms. Trading Standard and the Court say we have a good case.