Geofix with sandstone

[Rick]

Hi - I made a post on the pavior sect, that probably makes better sense being here.
http://ext.pavingexpert.com/cgi-bin....&t=5227

Having a reasonably large patio area and path laid with imported Indian Sandstone.

Each of the firms I have asked to quote - have recommended that the pointing is done with Geofix ... yet forum members have have said don't use this, but not given any reasons why.

The way it was explained to me is that Geofix gives superior strength pointing, with no risk of staining ? unlike sand & cement that has little strength, prone to cracking, break up by weeds and risk of staining during laying.

Keen to know why I should not use Geofix (never used it) and what should I use if I don't use this .... assuming that world has moved on rather than plain old sand & cement pointing.

[lutonlagerlout]

www.easipoint do some really nice sand cement mortars
and romex and gftk do some nice epoxy mortars that wont fail

the problem with geofix is that it jsut doesnt last 5 minutes
every tradesman here who has used it has had poor results by the 6 month mark,there is simply not enough resin in it

if you do a site search bannister hall near preston do mail order for romex patio
its a bit more agg but its worth the effort
cheers LLL

[Rich H]

Did a few in 2006. Replaced them all with mortar eventually. Utter crap. Looks great when you do it but doesn't last.

Geofix and PaveFix are similar products; polymeric sand. Polymeric sand is categorically nowhere near as strong as mortar, does not bond to the slabs and provides a medium for weed growth (yes it does!).

If the paving is laid correctly and the pointing done properly the mortar is very unlikely to crack for a very long time, if at all.

Polymeric sand has cost me many hundreds of pounds and lost days and I wouldn't touch it with an extremely long barge pole.

[Tony McC]

The main problems with GeoFix, and those products that are incredibly similar are:

1 - the product does NOT bond to the paving. It merely sits there, in the joint, preventing the ingress of fag ends, but not actually contributing anything at all to the structural integrity of the pavement.

2 - it discolours with incredible rapidity. This is largely due to colonisation by algae, but the general opinion is that GeoFix is affected much more quickly than any other jointing medium.

3 - there are innumerable cases where the GeoFix has not set hard and has subsequently been penetrated by stiletto heels, sometimes causing falls for which a tradesman could be held liable

4 - If the paving is power washed, out comes the GeoFix plug, because it doesn't bond to anything other than itself.


I could into all the technical detail about BS7533 part 12, to which GeoFix doesn't even come close, but that's probably beyond the requirements of a simple patio.

When it first appeared on the scene a dozen or more years ago, I thought GeoFix was wonderful, the answer to all our prayers, but I've now seen so many projects that have failed as a direct result of the GeoFix, ranging from small back-yard patios to major town centre pedestrianisation schemes, that I simply cannot endorse its use for anything other than ant farms to keep the kids amused. Since it came onto the scene, other, superior products have been launched, but GeoFix has remained more or less the same, relying on a reputation earned more than a decade ago to maintain an ever-decreasing share of a very valuable market.

When you compare its performance against the latest resin-based jointing media from Europe, it's laughable. And now, even the cement-based products are eating into its market because they have developed new and improved delivery methods while GeoFix has relied on past glories.

A large part of why it continues to be "recommended" by some contractors is simply because they aren't aware of the alternatives and they don't have the requisite skills to undertake a neat and tidy cement mortar pointing job. This is a fault of those responsible for promoting and distributing the "better" products. They simply haven't blown their trumpet loud enough or in the right direction. Just look at how many requests for suppliers of the Romex range of jointing materials have been posted to this message board as an indication of how poorly that product has been marketed: and that's less than a tenth of the emails and phone calls I receive.

If and when the modern resin-based jointing producers get their act together and start managing an effective distribution and marketing initiatoive, GeoFix will disappear, consigned to the dustbin of history along with all those other products that never bothered to keep up with the modern world, like trebuchets, Austin Allegros and knitted swimwear.

[lutonlagerlout]

hey! nothing wrong with allegros
austin maxis,now that was a crap car
and i had 1
LLL

[James.Q]

and my knitted swimwear still looks good lol:p

[Rick]

The main problems with GeoFix, and those products that are incredibly similar are: ......

So are any pointing 'products' worth using ? .... one poster mentioned ROMEX ?

or should I just use 4:1 dry mix with pre-colured sand ?

[Tony McC]

Romex and GftK are not the same as GeoFix/PaveFix. They rely on a different type of resin and they counter most of the problems listed previously, in particular they *do* bond to the paving. Similarly, most of the cement-based products are more than adequate as long as you're careful not to spill/stain during installation. It's just GeoFix in particular and its "clones" that are prone to the problems already mentioned.

[mickavalon]

tried Geo fix, had all same problems, also gone back to mortar pointing, saw quite a few new products at Glee this year but tried none yet, fuss of getting hold of them puts me off,tried pointing gun also, no mess on the paving but lots everywhere else especially us