Water under floorboards - 2 years of my life!!!!!

[kev]

I have had an ongoing water issue under my floorboards for 2 years now and am getting close to losing my mind. Please can you offer any advise. I will try and detail any information that is relevant. The problem first emerged when I moved into the property 2 years ago. I discovered a foot of water under the floorboards (soil under floorboards in foundations area is about 4ft below floorboards). My insurance got a drainage company out and discovered the soil stack had been leaking at the u-bend. No one knows how long it had been leaking so put the water down to this leak. This was repaired and the water pumped out. Hundreds of gallons!!! The enviromental health were also invloved at this time due to the chance of it being waste water etc. The water appeared again a few weeks later (a small amount this time). Dye tests were performed throughout the house. No dye appeared. The next door neighbour was also tested and it was discovered that their soil stack was also leaking into the area under our floorboards. This was also repaired. Still the water would appear a few weeks later. It was now just appearing as a puddle in one of the corners at the back of the house. It seemed to be related to the rain. More dye tests were performed on the whole drains areas etc. Also numerous cameras were shoved down the sewer pipes. The reports from these suggested there was a dip in the pipes and they were holding water in the area that was near to where the water was appearing. Although there was a dip it was advised that it was not damaged or leaking. So where was the water coming from? One evening there was a major downpour of rain. Fearing the worst I lifted the floorboard to see water streaming down the foundation wall through the mortar ( about 1ft from the soil floor). I watched as the area filled with water. More dye checks were done and nothing appeared. It was suggested that the water was getting through a small gap between the patio paving slabs and the outer wall. Hmmmm not really convinced by this but thought that maybe I should get the area excavated and protect with a damp proof membrane etc. A few months passed before I finally got round to instigating this project. Anyway just before I did I checked the area under the floorboards to see if anything was there. This time there was almost a foot of foul water. I lifted the sewer manhole and the sewers pipes were blocked. My house is the first on the chain so it had backed up under my floorboards. Lovely!!! A neighbour told me that the sewer pipes block occasionally. Anyway this proved to me that there was a leak in the sewer pipes as how could I have sewage in my house if not. The insurance sent out a company who rechecked with their cameras etc. They once again said there was a dip in the pipes which was probably caused by the neighbours conservatory which was sat on top...The pipes are not very deep as we are the beginning and it slopes away. They decided to change the piping with new ones up until the point of the conservatory and then reline the next part up to the point the neighbour joins. So now everything is new, there should be no water. A week later on a frosty morning a puddle appeared again. How could this be. The drains company were called back to check their work. Dye tests, pressure tests etc were carried out. There work was fine, but it was discovered that the neighbour had a leak in their gulley which could be finding its way into us. It was now their responsibility to get this repaired. They have advised me that this has been carried out. This was a couple of months ago. I thought that the nightmare was over. No way! Last week there were many days of heavy heavy rain. This was the ultimate test to see if it was over. Surpise, surpise the water appeared. I also saw it bleeding through the brickwork again. Drainage company were called back to test everything all over again. They yet again found nothing. The man suggested the next stage was to do a soil test to see if the soil was not draining away properly. I forget the terminology but it was a test on the soil for clay etc. I guess connected to high water table and water not draining suffiently.
Anyway there are other factors to this whole story as more has been unravelling throughout the week. After this heavy rain last week our rear garden was extremely waterlogged. I mean really water logged. I had just started to excavate the garden so it is in a raw state with no grass in certain areas at the bottom. It was so water logged that you sank into the soil by 6". It was a bog in the bottom area. At the bottom of the garden is a small meadow type of area on one side and more houses etc. on the other. It is really an area in the middle of all the housed that has been unbuilt on. I asked the house who is at the bottom of my garden if he was waterlogged. Our garden slopes toward him so though he must be. He runs horizontally to us. Yep, he was absolutely waterlogged. More than us. He has only moved in recently and apparently his neighbours said there is always a problem after heavy rain. He also reminded me that on the ancient maps etc of the area that the meadow style area used to have a stream!!!!! Now I am starting to think there is a link between my problem and this old stream. High water tables have always been ruled out but I'm not so sure now. The actual house is a few feet higher than the garden, but the soil under the floorboards is almost level with the garden. Almost all the houses in my street have had damp proof courses (1930's houses) which seems strange. The only reason I discovered the water was due to renovating the property otherwise it would be hidden under the carpets! There seems to be a link but I don't know how to proof it or prevent it. My insurance company has been involved when it was thought to be a leak from the drains but I'm not sure they will be for this cause. Therefore I am concerned as I feel I am near to a result but don't know who to turn to to correct this issue. Is the water rising through the soil when it rains. Do I need to install a pump under the floorboards? Do I need some sort of drainage? Do I need to raise the soil level under the floorboards. What kind of expert do I need to contact as this seems to be very specialist. I can't imagine the usual AA drains would be able to deal with this?? Can you advise me where to turn and if this new discovery sounds realistic or is there something else causing my problems. I know that your site has many tales of gardens waterlogged with heavy clay soil. The soil I have is very heavy clay. I'm not so concerned about the garden being waterlogged but how to prevent it in the house as I fear that over a prolonged period it could cause major problems. Sorry for such lengthy story but this is an abbreviated 2 years history.
Regards Kevin

[Salty]

Hello Kevin,

I read your post with some fascination as it sounds very similar to a problem I'm having. Though I've only been trying to sort it out for the last month.

Moved into new house (1930's end terrace)
Lifted loose floorboard and discovered an inch or so of water on subfloor (which appears to be concrete and only about 18" or so below the floor).
Had a week of hot weather and the water dried up
Had a month of heavy rain and 3 inches of water built up, which isn't receeding yet.
Next door but one say there's is the same but aren't really bothered. They think there's a little brook/spring/stream kind of thing on the privately owned land behind. And that it's just a high water table.

Tried to get water authority out to have a look and they're not interested, tried to get Enviromental Health out and same result.

Might try contacting my buildings insurance as you've done and see if they can help.

Water logged garden (though it's dried now) and very heavy clay soil from about a foot down.

I'm thinking about just getting a sump pump installed, but this doesn't seem like much of a solution. I don't know what kind of company I would get to do this anyway?

Obviously yours was foul water as well, which is very nasty, whereas mine seems very clear. I've tried putting food dye down a couple of drains, but I suspect this isn't upto the job and by the time it's filtered through you wouldn't see the colour anyway.

Apparently I have a combined sewerage and storm water pipe running across my back garden which is owned by Severn Trent. I have one theory that this doesn't leak with normal fould water, but perhaps fills up and leaks when there's heavy rain, but who knows really. I'm thinking of threatening to dig this up myself in the hope of getting them to come out and have a look at it...

Sorry I can't be any help but I'd be very interested by any updates you have and what solution you settle on.

[Tony McC]

The usual solution to this type of problem is to construct a sump at a convenient point in the sub-floor, and then use a pump with a float switch to evacuate water as it accumulates, sending it to a convenient disposal point, which will probably be an external sewer.

It's impossible to be more detailed than that as I'm not familiar with your site. These systems are normally installed either by specialist drainage contractors, plumbists or damp control companies.

[danensis]

Alternatively you could plant alders in the garden.

[Tony McC]

I was at a site not a million miles from you, Jon, a couple of weeks ago. Halfway up a Derbyshire peak, needed 3rd gear in the Shogun to get up the lane. One part of the site is thick with Alder along with some Willow, and a good few Birch, and the land was like a bloody quagmire. On numerous occasions, my walking stick became stuck and had to be wrestled free.

If I had the time (and the funding) I'd love to map the stratigraphy of this site, as I reckon there a bund of boulder clay that has created a little pocket of bog just where someone wants to build a couple of houses.

Alders alongside a stream are nothing exceptional, but halfway up a hill on a south-facing slope?

[andpartington]

hi I had some thing similar a while back. Water under the front of my house solved the problem with a land drain that ran along the front of the house after been quoted 6000 to fill up under the flour with "mot"

Hope this helps in some small way
andy

[Tony McC]

Filling the sub-floor with "MoT" will make the problem even bloody worse!!! Whoever suggested that to you: keep well away from them!

[golfannie]

I have had an ongoing water issue under my floorboards for 2 years now and am getting close to losing my mind. Please can you offer any advise. I will try and detail any information that is relevant. The problem first emerged when I moved into the property 2 years ago. I discovered a foot of water under the floorboards (soil under floorboards in foundations area is about 4ft below floorboards). My insurance got a drainage company out and discovered the soil stack had been leaking at the u-bend. No one knows how long it had been leaking so put the water down to this leak. This was repaired and the water pumped out. Hundreds of gallons!!! The enviromental health were also invloved at this time due to the chance of it being waste water etc. The water appeared again a few weeks later (a small amount this time). Dye tests were performed throughout the house. No dye appeared. The next door neighbour was also tested and it was discovered that their soil stack was also leaking into the area under our floorboards. This was also repaired. Still the water would appear a few weeks later. It was now just appearing as a puddle in one of the corners at the back of the house. It seemed to be related to the rain. More dye tests were performed on the whole drains areas etc. Also numerous cameras were shoved down the sewer pipes. The reports from these suggested there was a dip in the pipes and they were holding water in the area that was near to where the water was appearing. Although there was a dip it was advised that it was not damaged or leaking. So where was the water coming from? One evening there was a major downpour of rain. Fearing the worst I lifted the floorboard to see water streaming down the foundation wall through the mortar ( about 1ft from the soil floor). I watched as the area filled with water. More dye checks were done and nothing appeared. It was suggested that the water was getting through a small gap between the patio paving slabs and the outer wall. Hmmmm not really convinced by this but thought that maybe I should get the area excavated and protect with a damp proof membrane etc. A few months passed before I finally got round to instigating this project. Anyway just before I did I checked the area under the floorboards to see if anything was there. This time there was almost a foot of foul water. I lifted the sewer manhole and the sewers pipes were blocked. My house is the first on the chain so it had backed up under my floorboards. Lovely!!! A neighbour told me that the sewer pipes block occasionally. Anyway this proved to me that there was a leak in the sewer pipes as how could I have sewage in my house if not. The insurance sent out a company who rechecked with their cameras etc. They once again said there was a dip in the pipes which was probably caused by the neighbours conservatory which was sat on top...The pipes are not very deep as we are the beginning and it slopes away. They decided to change the piping with new ones up until the point of the conservatory and then reline the next part up to the point the neighbour joins. So now everything is new, there should be no water. A week later on a frosty morning a puddle appeared again. How could this be. The drains company were called back to check their work. Dye tests, pressure tests etc were carried out. There work was fine, but it was discovered that the neighbour had a leak in their gulley which could be finding its way into us. It was now their responsibility to get this repaired. They have advised me that this has been carried out. This was a couple of months ago. I thought that the nightmare was over. No way! Last week there were many days of heavy heavy rain. This was the ultimate test to see if it was over. Surpise, surpise the water appeared. I also saw it bleeding through the brickwork again. Drainage company were called back to test everything all over again. They yet again found nothing. The man suggested the next stage was to do a soil test to see if the soil was not draining away properly. I forget the terminology but it was a test on the soil for clay etc. I guess connected to high water table and water not draining suffiently.
Anyway there are other factors to this whole story as more has been unravelling throughout the week. After this heavy rain last week our rear garden was extremely waterlogged. I mean really water logged. I had just started to excavate the garden so it is in a raw state with no grass in certain areas at the bottom. It was so water logged that you sank into the soil by 6". It was a bog in the bottom area. At the bottom of the garden is a small meadow type of area on one side and more houses etc. on the other. It is really an area in the middle of all the housed that has been unbuilt on. I asked the house who is at the bottom of my garden if he was waterlogged. Our garden slopes toward him so though he must be. He runs horizontally to us. Yep, he was absolutely waterlogged. More than us. He has only moved in recently and apparently his neighbours said there is always a problem after heavy rain. He also reminded me that on the ancient maps etc of the area that the meadow style area used to have a stream!!!!! Now I am starting to think there is a link between my problem and this old stream. High water tables have always been ruled out but I'm not so sure now. The actual house is a few feet higher than the garden, but the soil under the floorboards is almost level with the garden. Almost all the houses in my street have had damp proof courses (1930's houses) which seems strange. The only reason I discovered the water was due to renovating the property otherwise it would be hidden under the carpets! There seems to be a link but I don't know how to proof it or prevent it. My insurance company has been involved when it was thought to be a leak from the drains but I'm not sure they will be for this cause. Therefore I am concerned as I feel I am near to a result but don't know who to turn to to correct this issue. Is the water rising through the soil when it rains. Do I need to install a pump under the floorboards? Do I need some sort of drainage? Do I need to raise the soil level under the floorboards. What kind of expert do I need to contact as this seems to be very specialist. I can't imagine the usual AA drains would be able to deal with this?? Can you advise me where to turn and if this new discovery sounds realistic or is there something else causing my problems. I know that your site has many tales of gardens waterlogged with heavy clay soil. The soil I have is very heavy clay. I'm not so concerned about the garden being waterlogged but how to prevent it in the house as I fear that over a prolonged period it could cause major problems. Sorry for such lengthy story but this is an abbreviated 2 years history.
Regards Kevin

I read your dilemma with great interest as I have discovered the same problem under my floorboards. Please can you advise if you have found a way to prevent the water coming into your house.

[davet]

I have discovered a similar problem that occurs after rain. It is only since I had part of the garden excavated to build a conservatory.
The back garden slopes gently towards the house. Water seems to seep in through the brick work below the dpc in one or two places and gathers in a pool around the center of the house, up to 4 or 5 inches deep. I have bailed out 12 buckets on occasions.
I discovered this recently after moving in 5 months ago and renovating the 1960s bungalow - having had floor boards up for most of this time, there was no sign of damp when I first took them up. It was dry prior to the conservatory project installed about 6 weeks ago.
The house is on a concrete raft, the garden is clay so could the rain be running off the garden and through the footings which are below ground level.
Would excavating (8 to 12 inches) of earth and, in parts, concrete path down to the level of concrete raft, help the situation - and/or using a vertical membrane and render over the brick course below dpc.
thanks for any help or suggestions

[seanandruby]

as you know where the water is seeping in i would of thought waterstop, or, similar. Sika 4 is good. water will always go to the lowest point so once you've solved the leak, maybe a linear drain can be installed.

[davet]

thanks for that sean, can you tell me where to get sika is it available from builders merchants

[seanandruby]

should be stocked at your local b m. if they havent got it there will be other makes. be warned though you have to be quick with it as it goes off in 40 seconds. there is slower material so check with your b m.

[matt h]

have come across several similar properties, and nearly all had different causes! One actually had an underground stream directly under the house, which was a major headache and took six weeks to divert. Another was as result of neighbours' drain collapsed in adjoining property,another by blocked main sewer which blew internal collars in internal soil pipe... not a pretty site and an even worse job to clean up. Couldnt get rid of the stench it followed me for weeks... I was almost chewing it r:( Another basement flat in winchester where the mains pipe had burst alongside the property and ended coming through the walls and bubbling up through the floor. We were pumping alnight as there was no isolator on the mains, and the break was under the pavement. Local water board couldnt locate the leak, so I dug up the pipe and followed it to the split... it was old black pipe with above ground fittings..Water had built up so much that it flowed uphill to the property before finding the weak points and flooding in.T he two flats affected ended up full to ceiling height before we could get the pumps going....pipes obviously laid by some idle council workin outfit back in the day. Clients wern't happy because the council wouldn't pay for the internal damage, but they did pay for fitting a new mains isolator , fitting appropriate pipe and reinstatement of the pavement. The owner of one of the basement flats was a builder and refused to believe that water had come up through the floor as his blokes had supposedly laid it. We showed him our video and he went a bit quiet. Problem was his bloody saniflo blew with the waterpressure... I seem to get all the best jobs:D Any way, getting back to the subject, there are many solutions to your particular problem, one involves fitting an external form of drainage, holey pipes i call them, and the other is by fitting a sump pump as previously mentioned by others. These are effective against surface water, but if the main sewer backs up then you may experience further problems. I f the cause can be proved to be the dip in the neighbours' pipe, then you can cause action to be taken against them to sort the problem out.As water has already penetrated the property, your foundation walls may become subject to frost damage, so I would try to arrange additional subfloor ventilation to help dry it out. Have a look at the main site to see different types of drainage and see what i mean by the perforated 'holey' drains. If it is your watertable, then you may need to try some older style drainage methods, which involve creating a deep channel along the outside of the house, but again without site knowledge, I can't fully advise.External 'tanking ' is another option, but again site visit required.Your local land registry should have old maps of the area, so have a look at them and see the extent of any flood plains etc. If the water is soiled, believe me you will know! Check any runs of external mains pipes as well to make sure you are not experiencing the joys of a split pipe... this is normally associated with a continuous build up but not always the case, dependant on the size of the leak It does however seem that your particular problem is as a result of the combination drainage. Your local waterboard should be consulted, as any damage could be attributed to them, particularily if the water is soiled. It could be due to a collapsed drain elsewhere, and the water backing up when the rain gets heavy... had on in gosport only last year... I was called out three times to a particular property, which just happened to be end of line before the main sewer. I rodded it cleareach time, and reported it to the waterboard. who eventually located the collapsed sewer some three streets over! Touch wood I havent had to go back despite the torrents we have had since. Sorry if this isnt of much help, but wish you luck in locating the cause, as without that you are going to experience repeat flooding . A pump is only a way of removing water that has penetrated, it doesnt stop the penetration.Had one in fareham where the polish builders had excavated a basement flat and had undermined the property and only laid strips of polythene on the ground and then 2 inches of concrete . They fitted sump pumps and forgot to adjust the arms... result one brand new flat £20,000 wasted. I could go on but you'ld end up too depressed..If you think you need some further advise, contact me directly...n.hannigan@ntlworld .com

[matt h]

I have discovered a similar problem that occurs after rain. It is only since I had part of the garden excavated to build a conservatory.
The back garden slopes gently towards the house. Water seems to seep in through the brick work below the dpc in one or two places and gathers in a pool around the center of the house, up to 4 or 5 inches deep. I have bailed out 12 buckets on occasions.
I discovered this recently after moving in 5 months ago and renovating the 1960s bungalow - having had floor boards up for most of this time, there was no sign of damp when I first took them up. It was dry prior to the conservatory project installed about 6 weeks ago.
The house is on a concrete raft, the garden is clay so could the rain be running off the garden and through the footings which are below ground level.
Would excavating (8 to 12 inches) of earth and, in parts, concrete path down to the level of concrete raft, help the situation - and/or using a vertical membrane and render over the brick course below dpc.
thanks for any help or suggestions

Suggest you need linear drain , have look at main site for this

[matt h]

Hello Kevin,

I read your post with some fascination as it sounds very similar to a problem I'm having. Though I've only been trying to sort it out for the last month.

Moved into new house (1930's end terrace)
Lifted loose floorboard and discovered an inch or so of water on subfloor (which appears to be concrete and only about 18" or so below the floor).
Had a week of hot weather and the water dried up
Had a month of heavy rain and 3 inches of water built up, which isn't receeding yet.
Next door but one say there's is the same but aren't really bothered. They think there's a little brook/spring/stream kind of thing on the privately owned land behind. And that it's just a high water table.

Tried to get water authority out to have a look and they're not interested, tried to get Enviromental Health out and same result.

Might try contacting my buildings insurance as you've done and see if they can help.

Water logged garden (though it's dried now) and very heavy clay soil from about a foot down.

I'm thinking about just getting a sump pump installed, but this doesn't seem like much of a solution. I don't know what kind of company I would get to do this anyway?

Obviously yours was foul water as well, which is very nasty, whereas mine seems very clear. I've tried putting food dye down a couple of drains, but I suspect this isn't upto the job and by the time it's filtered through you wouldn't see the colour anyway.

Apparently I have a combined sewerage and storm water pipe running across my back garden which is owned by Severn Trent. I have one theory that this doesn't leak with normal fould water, but perhaps fills up and leaks when there's heavy rain, but who knows really. I'm thinking of threatening to dig this up myself in the hope of getting them to come out and have a look at it...

Sorry I can't be any help but I'd be very interested by any updates you have and what solution you settle on.

It may be quicker to get it camered, you can hire them but most drainage firms have their own, and a site visit usually gets the best advice. I f you dig up the drain then you'll be liable for the repair, as they can say you caused the damage by the excavation...