Hardwood timber setts - What is the best way to fix them down?

[guym]

I've got a curious question that i can't find any info on: we're installing some 100 year old hardwood timber setts into a modern landscape area. They were used in this area - down by a wharf a 100 years ago, and in those days they were installed covered in pitch, and later asphalted over.

We've tried to install them using modern methods of a Sika type epoxy product, and a sandy pave lock type grout between, but its being spectacularly unsuccessful so far - they are breaking lose, popping up out of the matrix etc, and not looking pretty. Plus the wood has exposed end grains and is starting to really split. What to do?

I was wondering if ANYone has experience in laying these, and what they would recommend. I've read the section on laying stone cobbles and setts, and note that pitch is still an option, but am not so keen on it getting on ladies stillettos (it gets very hot out here at times). What about pitch half way up, and a sandy/pitch grout topping? Suggestions?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

cheers, Guy

[seanandruby]

maybe some chicen wire nailed loosely to the bottom to help them stick to your grout, concrete etc.

[matt h]

The timber is splitting due to rapid moisture loss.There are some rubberised bedding materials which might help, try using a yachting caulk. This is uncured rubber and will readily bond to the timbers as well as reduce moisture loss which is cause of splitting.Cost is likely to be a problem, but the job probably warrants it. When cured no probs for stillettoos unless the gaps are huge!

[matt h]

Between the setts you can use uncured sheet epdm which is a cheaper option imho

[James.Q]

dont know if this will help but a wood turner i know treats the end of his timbers with a pva solution to prevent splitting especialy with oak .

[matt h]

when turning most turners use a sanding sealer, which contains xylene or danish oil, which seals the end grain and therefore retains moisture. Danish oil is best in my opinion because it isnt toxic, but it needs recoating on an annual basis

[matt h]

when turning most turners use a sanding sealer, which contains xylene or danish oil, which seals the end grain and therefore retains moisture. Danish oil is best in my opinion because it isnt toxic, but it needs recoating on an annual basis

[Tony McC]

The only successful installations of hardwood setts I've seen have always relied on a bitumen of one form or another to bed the setts to the substrate.

They have them at the covered entrance to Trinity College on College Green in Dublin, and they were used in parts of London in the 19th C as a counter to traffic noise from horse's hoofs on stone setts.

Pitch/bitumen works because it remains flexible (fluid, actually) and thereby accommodates minor movement in the setts. A modern epoxy-based bedding medium will be rigid and unforgiving, and therefore more or less guaranteed to fail.

As for the jointing, again, look at how it used to be done. A fine sand fills the joints and can cope with minor movement: a bound sand or polymeric is 'locked' and therefore bloody useless in this type of situation.