BTW, according to the BBA for Kingspan Thermafloor, a slabs lack of levelness should not exceed 5mm. It should be smooth and free of projections and level.
This slabs has height differentials of at least 50mm and is roughly screeded.
ted the floor is not the major problem mate,we did an oversite thursday and someone ordered short
so where the slab was 150mm with mesh ,in 1 corner it goes down to 100mm ,probably 2 barrows short but the screeder will get over it,not ideal but when the gear has been ordered wrong whjat do you do?
LLL :;):
The floor is a problem. It is all over the place... very poor screeding and the DPM doesn't appear to have been installed properly. It should overlap 300mm between sheets, I believe.
Kingspan say the slab should not have discrepancies of more than 5mm and should be smooth and free of projections. It also says the slab must be level to fully support the boards.
Unfortunately, everything is badly done.
The builder has agreed the blockwork needs to be taken down and then a new design will have to be drawn up and submitted; probably studwork...
Ted,
I would not get too worked up over the formation concrete. I know what kingspan etc might say, but are you proposing to break up the existing slab? My suggestion would be to drill a few random cores to establish the depth of concrete ( unless you already know for certain). Assuming you have enough depth I would put the kingspan on as is, but rather than a traditional sand and cement screed I would go for a self levelling concrete (Bardon aggregates though I can not recall the name) and if you have sufficient headroom go for an extra 25mm depth with A142 re-inforcing mesh. Cast it in one piece then use a sthil saw to cut three quarters of the way through it at 6m spacings. The kingspan will flex enough when pouring to settle to the formation concrete. Use a mix stronger than the spec and you should get no problems. Speak to the technical guys at the big concrete producers they can be very helpful. Alternatively you could use the self levellling concrete to level up the formation layer, but I suspect you will be told it should be at least 50mm thick, then do a normal insulation and screed. As for the dpm not being right, unless you remove the old and start again, I would put another one in on top of the insulation. Sorting out a job like this one is about making the best of a bad job and it is not easy working out what you can safely do. How many sqaure metres is the internal area of the barn? Let us know how you get on.
I don't think either of you (ie LLL ansd Ski) have seen the photos of the floor yet, have you?
Whilst sloppy screeding may not be as serious or expensive to put right as the cavity walls, a levelling screed is needed otherwise Kingspan won't guarantee its product.
what we are both saying ted is that the floor is not insurmountable
most manufacturers will find a way to weasel out of things if they wish (i know degussa did with geo-fix)
in the real world concrete oversites are not always" spot on level"
as long as the floor screed is level,its not the greatest crime ever committed on a building site
sure you can rip up the oversite and relay the floor ,but the bottom line is "who is paying?"
cheers LLL
It is not level though; there are steps between pours of 50mm at least and discrepancies within pours of 20mm.
It states in the arch's instructions that the Kingspan be fitted in accordance with manufacturers instructions.
Kingspan say the floor should be smooth and level and without steps and that the boardsm must be fully supported.
Why should the client have to pay for me to level the slab?
It is petit in comapirson with the walls but this appears to be a bad build in every area - the roof needs to be redone IMHO and it was supposed to be a high quality build.
Unfortunately it now appears that the DPM is far from satisfactory.
The client should not have to pay for remedial work to a previous contractor's unsatisfactory work.
Ted,
I think LLL is right but I would also add the following. I said earlier you should get a complete list of known faults and defects at the time you became involved signed by client and architect with proposed remedies and cost implications, this should have been done regardless of any future change of planning status. You mentioned that you have been offered equity in the project, may I ask why. I think there are two possible explanations 1) They are trying to suck you in and get you to put in time and resources as they are already in trouble financially and are looking for a fall guy to help them out and are not to be trusted, or 2) they are looking to offer you a carrot to help and get them out of trouble in terms of the buildand are genuine. Sadly I suspect the former but I think you should get another opinion about the whole situation, maybe a good surveyor who you trust. It is very easy to get involved, not so easy to get out of tricky situations. Please beware. I would also try a little subtefuge, if you know who the previous contractor is, get a friend to ring sayning he has a
barn conversion and is looking for a contractor. Steer the conversation round being able to ask if he is involved in this one and then try to get his side of the story. It may be very interesting. One thing is for sure, there will not be much chance of financial compensation or him putting the work right. If there was the owners/architect would not be talking to you offering you equity. Sorry Ted, but I think you must really keep your wits about you on this one. ( I am not saying it cant be done, just get ALL the facts before you jump in)
Ted - have always read all your posts, and been informed by your knowledge. This one seems absolutely crackers - I'm sure, if you read this whole thread as if written by someone else, you would advise them to walk away.
How can this situation get better?
Don't want to sound doom & gloom, but the more you tell us, the worse the whole viability sounds.
Nobody wins in litigation, except the the lawyers.
Then of course the question of trust - if you trust the other parties you're going in with, it could all work out to everybodies benefit.
Whatever, I wish you the best.
"Meet the new boss - same as the old boss - We all get fooled again"
I know who the contractor is and the arch, and I am representing the client as the builder and arch are basically two clowns who try and bully their way out of everything and go around building very bad houses for people at extortionate prices (is my view on it).
The previous contractor still has a live contract and the site is still his. I get a salary when I start building work but I need to negotiate that the previous contractor pays to rectify his dismal work. I have already got him to admit the inner leaf needs to redone. IMO he hasn't a leg to stand on; he should not have accepted the contract if he could not build it and he has a duty to build according to good building practice.
There will be a handover arranged at some point where my arch takes over and signs off the work I do. The other arch will be liable for the slab and the foundations and underpinnings unless I can prove they need to be redone. A thorough survey will have to be done by a professional firm and solicitors will have to draw up a document so my arch and I aren't liable should a furture problem arise from any previous unsatisfactory work.
The previous contractor has already agreed that the walls are unsatisfactiory and he will have to foot the bill for re-doing them as it seems he doesn't want to come back and rectify the walls. I now have compelling evidence that the slab has to come up!
Ted,
by the way if the previous contractor has a "live" contract and has not yet been dismissed formally the client who employed him could be liable for his lost profit. That may be ridiculous if he is very bad at his job but it is the law. I am not sure where it leaves you if you start work on the job prior to him being formally dismissed. Even when a contractor is dimissed formally he has right to challenge the basis on which he has been dismissed, and if he is not give a "reasonable oppurtunity" too correct defects he may still have a claim for lost profit. Was this job done on a JCT contract?
