Facts & figures of the paving industry

[T-Star]

Hello,

As you might know I’m still doing research on the paving industry in England (not only England by the way). And what is a better place to ask questions about the paving industry than on this forum?!

Where in the UK I could find concrete paving? Does someone have facts and figures about the amount of pavers (in m2) in the U.K. preferably in comparison with asphalt. Are there contractors working with paving machines during the paving process? For instance a company as Gibson Contracts. In the Netherlands 9% is done by paving machines. I assume that the amount in the UK is much lower. When entering the English market with a paving machine, which aspects should be taken into account? Which authorities could be useful for getting information? Like Interlay or Interpave. What are the opportunities for paving machines in the U.K.?

I hope someone has a few answers.

[Ted]

Why not try Lexus-Nexus? It is an online database of newspapers and trade journals from all over the world. You can do very detailed searches using keywords and unearth all articles etc going back upto 10 years that contain these words. The British Library has Lexus-Nexus and it is free to use (except printing which is very expensive)

Also there are most likely magazines aimed at ashalt contractors, paving contractors etc. Phone them up and ask if they have ever done surveys such as these. Benn's Media Guide which is in the City Business Library in London lists most UK (and worldwide) trade journals.

You could also try phoning directors/managers of companies such as Marshalls and Tarmac etc (ie huge companies). They will have departments which conduct surveys such as these. If youy happen to get lucky you may find someone in the industry who has researched this.

Also, companies like Mintel and to a lesser extent Datamonitor conduct industry surveys. Have you looked to see if they do anything on paving etc? There reports are all in the British Library.

e2a: what is a paving machine exactly?

[lutonlagerlout]

how do you get in to the british library ted??
when i went there they showed me the door rapid.
regards LLL ???

[Suggers]

e2a: what is a paving machine exactly?

http://www.pavingexpert.com/news100.htm
Is this what our Dutch friend is on about? - I know there's been some new legislation in Holland....can't remember what.

[T-Star]

That is a paving robot. A paving machine is a machine which is controlled by about 3 employee's during the process. With a robot you have a joystick to manouvre the robot in its position and you must enter the data into the system. When this is done the robot starts its work. That's the main difference. Next to the fact that a robot will lay the blocks one by one and a paving machine in whole m2.

you could find examples of paving machines at http://www.probst-gmbh.de/pw010/l2/index.html and http://www.optimas.de/produkte/index.php?kat=17&hkat=4

[Ted]

how do you get in to the british library ted??
when i went there they showed me the door rapid.
regards LLL ???

You need to be doing research.

The two main ways to gain entry are:

1) Be an employee of a company that "needs research done". Any British Ltd Company can gain entry for any employee. You need a company-headed letter, signed by a director of the company, saying something along the lines of "Company XYZ requests that Mr Jones, an employee of Company XYZ, is granted access to the British Library to undertake some company, industry and market research for us..." You probably also need a couple of forms of ID, both photo (ie, passport/driving license) and address (ie, utility bills). I think you may also need two passport photos, or you used to (maybe they take your photo now themselves).

2) Be a student. But this is much harder. Generally unless you are doing a Masters degree or PhD they won't let you in. And even then they will question you as to why you need access. You have to be able to prove that the British Library is the resource you need and that no other libraries can help. So you need to be able to say that you have tried elsewhere (ie, a university library,the Barbican, DTI, City Business Library etc).

I got five years' access six years ago as an employee doing research. I renewed it by getting a mate who runs a company to write a letter on my behalf. But I have seen many, many, students turned away when applying for membership. Evenm when applying as an employee for a company you need to be prepared to explain why no where else is as good and why you need the British Library.

I dunno why they are so strict, but once you have membership it is much easier to renew. It is a useful place to go to research things but they do make it difficult for people.

[lutonlagerlout]

considering that we, the tax payers paid £680 million for the blooming thing (or whatever it was) you would think passport ID would gain you access,IMHO slags
regards LLL

[bobhughes]

Since the place is full of rare and valuable books that you can actually get your hands on I suppose they wouldn't want to let just any old Lout in....

[seanandruby]

i find it all very disturbing. h g wells got it right. hope they dont invent one for drainage. instead of getting injured laying bricks, blocks, flags etc; we will get arse sores from sitting round waiting for non existant work. id feel a right prat working with a robot. im all for safe working practice but these things are doing us out of a job, dont you think???

[lutonlagerlout]

Since the place is full of rare and valuable books that you can actually get your hands on I suppose they wouldn't want to let just any old Lout in....

touche bob
i got 7 "o" levels FYI
hehe true
LLL

[T-Star]

i find it all very disturbing. h g wells got it right. hope they dont invent one for drainage. instead of getting injured laying bricks, blocks, flags etc; we will get arse sores from sitting round waiting for non existant work. id feel a right prat working with a robot. im all for safe working practice but these things are doing us out of a job, dont you think???

I understand your concerns, but you have to take some aspects in to account. It is a fact that laying blocks is physical hard work. If you could automate that, you will reduce the physical workload and you are able to work faster en safer. Yearly 400 paviors are declared to be disabled (The Netherlands). Resulting in estimated extra costs of € 11.000.000,-. The Failure expenses are estimated: € 108.000.000,-. When you take into account that not the whole process will be automated and only the big projects will be automated than you shouldn’t be that concerned. It could be a chance for re-entering the paving industry for those who are declared unfit.

So personally I think that it isn’t a threat to the paviors.

[bobhughes]

Sean
Ever since the water wheel, men have resisted the introduction of automation on the grounds that it will put people out of work. It is a fact that the opposite is true - The invention of the spinning jenny (the one that the Luddites wanted to resist) bought thousands of jobs and great wealth to the North west. Computers were going to put us all out of work but that hasn't happened yet.

T-Star is right, machinery will make the bigger jobs quicker and easier and may even require less skill, but the smaller job will probably always have to be done by hand and I can see no likelyhood that demand will lessen - quite the opposite.

At least block and brick laying can't be outsourced to Outer Mongolia, and the current influx of East European tradesmen is a relativley short term event.

I drive trucks for a living and todays truck is far more complexthan the ones I learned to drive in, with computerised controls and power assisted everything but they still need a pilot in the front right-hand corner.

[mouldmaker]

It is a threat to workers, if only indirectly. Capital outlay of the machinery is high, which increases job costs, which in turn have to be reduced by cutting the labour force. The guys who have the plant will need to keep it working every day to make it pay, so will price jobs lower and price the little guys, who do it the old-fashioned way, out of the market. It won't be a way of getting unfit labourers back into the job-market, but reducing numbers of those currently doing it.

Trouble with the legislators is that they look at a problem and use a sledge-hammer to bang in a nail; they seldom look at issues holistically, seeing where the pitfalls and knock-on effects are.

A bit like invading middle-eastern countries without an exit strategy?

[lutonlagerlout]

bought thousands of jobs and great wealth to the North west.

yes bob low paid ,long hours and dangerous jobs to 7 yr old children
sure people got rich ,the same 1 per cent that are rich now. i can remember years ago my dad saying" well they cant build houses in china and bring them here can they??" but they can bring the workers,a mate of mine went for the start on a bellway homes job ,labouring and was offered £8 p/h on the cards!!
in real terms wages have decreased over the last 5 years for unskilled labourers
cheers LLL

[lutonlagerlout]

PS you must get it in the lorry driving industry bob??
lots of cheap european labour
btw i used to have a bedford tk 350 ,now that was an animal to drive,your arms and shoulders were pumped after an hour driving that baby (till the pikeys nicked the gearbox one night
regards LLL