Best way to tackle sandstone drive on a slope? - Trying to decide

[busy b]

Hi,

I’m doing some fairly radical work around my place, including a new drive, patios, and a few curved steps, plus a curvy wall thrown in for good measure. Just about everything’s sorted, but I do have a couple of things to resolve.

I want to use sandstone for the paving bits, and for the wall capping. I’ve been let down on the supply of stone though, through misinformation, I’ll not bother you with the details. The sort of thing we’re looking for, is a light brown to buff or grey sandstone, and something that when riven doesn’t come out too rough; don’t want everybody tripping up all the time and calling the injury lawyers. I now think the capping and step treads would be better sawn, to have consistency of thickness, if riven stuff isn’t reliable, I’ve been working on 40mm as being the one I’d be using. It doesn’t need to be squared stuff for this, because I have to cut the curves for the various radii of steps etc. Can anybody recommend a stone and a good supplier; right stuff at right price sort of place, in the north of England, or Derby upwards anyway?

My other thing to resolve concerns the drive. It’s an irregular shape an area of roughly 76sq m, on a bit of a slope something like 15 degrees. It’s been dug out, down to hard ground, and had a good 100mm of really good hardcore compacted in. The next stage is 100mm of reinforced concrete, but it’s how I tackle this I’m now trying to decide. I’m doing all the work myself, and laying 76sq m in one go, I suppose, if properly prepared, isn’t impossible, but a challenge never the less, even with ready-mix, assuming it comes when you want it. The thing about our drive though, in common with thousands of others, is that most of the services run up it, i.e. gas, electric, and sewer, fortunately they have all been run in the same trench. If I go over the whole lot with a single block, what happens if access is ever needed to the services? So I wondered about laying the concrete in panels, including one about 750mm wide up the line of the services. This would leave me with an area I could split into three, making four separate panels in all. To help anchor the panels on the slope, I would put trenches across the slope at the top, middle, and bottom of each panel and leave a 10mm expansion joint between the panels. There’s stone to go on top off all this though, and I’m wondering, with four different slabs of concrete, if they do move about because of the slope or expansion / contraction etc, what’s going to happen to the stone? I’m wondering, should I be thinking of working some expansion joints into the stone paving too perhaps, or will this begin to make it look messy, there again, do I have any choice? Is there a flexible bed option, can I bed the stone on the concrete with sand, as with block paving, or are the tolerances too uneven i.e. stone thickness not uniform enough, or the slabs not flat enough, or joints not tight enough, or all of these.

It’s a bit of a head scratcher, and I was wondering if anyone had been there done that, and got any after thoughts and suggestions to offer?

Cheers!

Busy b
???

[lutonlagerlout]

BIG post busy bee
1 indian sandstone does not lend itself to steps due to the riven nature,when i have used it for steps i do a brick on edge and infill with the sandstone
2 indian sandstone is not a great material for driveways,i have done 2 and your prospectus seems good ,but i would worry about the skid factor
how steep is your drive??
the stone might laminate if car wheels spin on it
76m2 is a fair old lump of crete to do on your own,i am doing 37.5m2 tommorrow (4m3) and will make sure i have 2 lads bringing and me levelling
depending on the steepness of your drive you might need a number of shutters to stop the concrete "rolling" down hill,
i wouldnt worry too much about the services a lot of stuff they can mole now if there is a problem,its kinda negative worrying about what "may" happen
good luck
cheers LLL

[danstan]

Sandstone for use on a driveway still seems to be a popular topic of discussion

Global Stone (a supplier of ours in the south of England) offer a driveway sett/cobble in two colours, tumbled and specially aimed at fulfilling this niche. (The setts are obviously very thick, 50mm+)

As with a lot of other products from Global, the driveway cobble is a joy to the eye and should be a consideration for people wanting to utilise sandstone as a finish for their driveway
Check out Global web-link
Dan


GlobalStone

[busy b]

Hi again, and thanks to ganger “lutonlargerlout� and “danstan� for the input. They always say that two, or three, heads, are better than one, even if they’re only etc, etc, etc, you’ll know the rest.

The comment about things being “moled� through more these days was interesting. Not being involved on a regular basis I’d forgotten about that, I’m not sure what its capabilities are though. Still you were right about being negative, or is that over cautious, I guess that’s just me. I’m used to having to try and cover all eventualities though, “think before you act�, being a bit of a guiding phrase I’ve had drummed into me. Nobody knows everything though, even though some might think they do. That’s the beauty of these Forums, there’s always the chance that somebody has something worthwhile to say on the matter, and provide the missing piece to the puzzle. There’s nothing like experience, often not valued and appreciated enough, even by those who have it.

I still have to finally decide about the concreting, all in one, or separate panels / slabs? The mole suggestion has made some of that easier, and it will make the job a better one. It’s really about how separate slabs will perform, because there’s bound to be movement. If I lay slabs, they’re going to be like little islands, and those, which are subjected to the traffic running over them most, will move most, plus it’s on a slope too. This to some extent, it seems to me, depends on what I use, and do, with the final stonework. I don’t want to lay the concrete in slabs, lay the stone to span the joints, and the slabs then in time move and I end up with cracks, because as sure as eggs is eggs that’s what’ll happen. I had thought some time ago that hard landscaping was all well and good, it would serve its practical purpose, but too much would look too hard, especially around our house and for the look I’m trying to create. What came out of all this thinking was to use the well-known trick of softening it with a bit of well considered planting. Or at least my head gardener tells me that’s what she’s going to do. Expanding this idea, what I thought would help as well would be if I left some of the joints; particularly around the edges of the paving, open, and then plant these up with something suitable. Then it occurred to me that with some careful working out, and some nifty shutter work, I could lay the slabs of concrete in such a way as to coincide with the stonework laid on top. This would leave joints open, 15 to 20mm would be enough, to be planted up and form ribbons across the paving, thereby breaking up the expanse. These would in effect be flexible joints, and when any movement takes place along these ribbons, it won’t be noticed. One slight downside of them is of course the question of maintenance, sweeping, cleaning and the like. By the way, are pressure washers a no no when it comes to sandstone? I know some of the likely plants to use are pretty resilient, so I’m confident it’ll be ok.

All this brings me back to the subject of what I eventually end up using. I had a look at the Globestone as Dan suggested, and it does have great possibilities, maybe mixing in larger sizes is a possibility, I’ll ask for more information anyway. I did actually go down the list of suppliers on this excellent site, and asked for information from eighteen, and had a disappointing two replies, so far at any rate. The trouble is, not knowing individual varieties of stone and the different quarries, there’s no other way of narrowing things down. I know mother nature might have laid the same stone down differently in one quarry to another, and similarly some stone might come out with a smoother face when riven. Without knowing first hand though, I have to go through the process of finding out. For instance, one reply I did get was for a stone that couldn’t be riven, and comes only sawn. It looks a lovely stone, but to use sawn for everything would a/ not look quite right for what I want, and b/ cost a fortune. I’ll keep in mind what you say about sandstone, about the de-laminating etc, perhaps this is where one type might prove to be more suitable than another.

Thanks again for your thoughts and suggestions, if anything more occurs to you from these latest thinking out loud ramblings, I’m only too willing to take notice of what anyone has to say. If I don’t hold them myself, I’ll take missing pieces to puzzles from wherever I can find them.

Cheers!

busy b.

[bobhughes]

Cor - He don't half go on

[lutonlagerlout]

i've got a migraine reading that LOL
i suppose fair enough if you are gonna do it ,do it once and right.
wish i had a head gardener<envious looks>
maybe a picture of the site would help us busy bee???
cheers LLL

[bobhughes]

LLL
So what about the lovely Mrs Lout? Is she not your Head Gardner then?

[Suggers]

Grammar, spelling & punctuation - flawless - a delight to read -
make's a bleedin' change.
Sod the photie of busy b's project, let's have a photie of Mrs. Lout......

[lutonlagerlout]

you wouldnt want to see it suggs,shes got a body from bay watch and a face from crimewatch. lovely long black hair....all down her back hehe hope she dont read this
cheers LLL

[Stuarty]

heh thats some description LLL heh.

Insomnia is an utter bitch im up in 4 hours to get myself to work heh

[TheVictorianCobbleCo]

A few thoughts - take it or leave it. As far as I've seen, from 3 x to 6 x 3 m slab sections are about the biggest DIY I would attempt without expansion joints, and then key in with RI Rods between slabs, The last 150 thk imprinted slab by proff company with reinforcing cracked about 3 m from edge. We make a cobble 110 sq in sandstone but it would not be thick enough and too small - altho we are adding to the range with a 220 x 110 and a 220 sq unit. As mentioned by others I would be wary of laying large sandstone slabs on a drive, but there are successful installations in Tonbridge. Now, and I have no vested interest here, Smartstone in Cape Town did a sandstone paver for public use (upwards of 500m2 and more for Shortmarket street in Cape town - if I remember correctly in the region of 500mm square, with half and qtr sizes, but importantly, about 80mm thick. I've the feeling that with the present exchange rate you could buy what you need and ship it over for pretty much what you would pay for it here. And it does look good. Check out Smartstone and Revelstone ZA for more info'
Billy Carter-Smith

[TheVictorianCobbleCo]

If someone tells me how to upload photos I'll see what I can do
Billy Carter-Smith

[TheVictorianCobbleCo]

Failing all that, I'm pretty good at changing grey concrete into sandstone coloured concrete, but I've got the feeling that might not be upmarket enough.
Billy Carter-Smith