Pattern imprinted concrete yes or no! - Help

[wesley]

We are thinking of having our driveway re-done, and someone suggested PIC. I've heard so many conflicting reports on the matter that I'm confused as to whether to try this method of driveway construction.

Has anybody any words of wisdom they can give on this subject.........????

[Ted]

PIC is a good surface. It gets a bit of rap on here as there are rogue contractors out there, and maybe also as there are a lot of slab layers and block pavers who post on this site and dislike the competition

The problem with PIC is that it is a skilled job to lay it, particularly to lay it well. If you lay it badly the only way to fix it is to break it all up and redo it. Not surprisingly, many "cowboy" contractors just do a runner if they do a bad job (probably with 75% of the cost of your new driveway in their pocket).

So, if you want a good PIC driveway you should speak to the supply houses (ie, PICS, Creative Impressions, Lafarge Artevia, Bonamite, PHL, Elitecrete, Colour Pave etc) and get them to recommend a contractor. Get these people's opinions of the contractors you are speaking to too, if you have one in mind already.

I would not use a PIC contractor who is not an established company (ie, a limited company, postal address, landline number). And I would avoid one with a slick salesman as these types of firm are often nothing more than a salesman who then subs the work oout wiith no quality checks. You want to be speaking to the guy who is going to lay the PIC from day one rather than some guy in a suit who doesn't have a scooby about concrete and can just measure your driveway.

I would also avoid a contractor whoo wants paying in cash. If he is prepared to rip the taxman off, hhe is probably quite likely to rip you off too.

[lutonlagerlout]

I would also avoid a contractor whoo wants paying in cash. If he is prepared to rip the taxman off, hhe is probably quite likely to rip you off too.

good point ted ,but there is no law as far as i know, that says you have to have a bank account.
the problem with building works is that once you have done the work ,if the cheque bounces you are trucked (had this recently)
if the work has been carried out to a satisfactory standard then there is no legal reason why payment cannot be made in pound notes
the onus is on you the contractor to pay all your NI, tax,corporation tax ,public liability etc
also i often get ppl giving me the wink and saying how much for a cash job??
i just knock off the 10% i added in anticipation of this,theres nothing people like more, than feeling that they have had a deal out of the government
cheers tony

[lutonlagerlout]

oh and as for PIC ,like ted says if it is done right it looks great ,but of the 20 or so i see round my area 15 of them are not doing too good
make sure you can see someones recent work and also an old job if possible,old ones count more with PIC
cheers tony

[bobbi o]

what about imprinted asphalt.

check out www.streetprint.com and prismo for your local contractor

[Suggers]

PIC is a good surface. It gets a bit of rap on here as there are rogue contractors out there, and maybe also as there are a lot of slab layers and block pavers who post on this site and dislike the competition

Nothing personal Ted but I really beg to differ - the reason PIC gets bad press is because of what it is - ie. one horrible slab of concrete - it doesn't let the sub-base breathe - it makes an immediate problem of surface water - it has no flexibility whatsoever - (the earth is moving all the time) -
it's trying to be something else - a bit like those hideous mock-tudor houses. Doric columns anyone?
I have no axe to grind here - competition's ok - just a gut feel that a flexible pavement will last for centuries - whereas the Titanic approach will crack, split and end in dust.
Look forward to your reply.
Regards
Suggers

[Ted]

the reason PIC gets bad press is because of what it is - ie. one horrible slab of concrete

Good PIC looks nice. Just look at the portfolios of these two companies below:-

http://www.bayareaconcretes.com/
http://www.surfacingsolutionsinc.com/galleries/index.html

it doesn't let the sub-base breathe

How important is this? Surely tarmacadam doesn't allow this either? I would imagine block-paving and slabs are pretty suffocating too.

it makes an immediate problem of surface water

I would argue that any paving should cause surface water issues, except perhaps gravel and Grasscrete. PIC should be installed with requisite drainage as should block paving etc.

it has no flexibility whatsoever - (the earth is moving all the time)

That is why a good concrete contractor inserts rebar and remesh into the concrete.

it's trying to be something else - a bit like those hideous mock-tudor houses. Doric columns anyone?

It depends on what PIC you are talking about. Some PIC looks ghastly beside a beautiful period property. Other PIC is not attempting to be anything other than beautiful concrete and can look fantastic besides modern architect-designed houses.

I have no axe to grind here - competition's ok - just a gut feel that a flexible pavement will last for centuries - whereas the Titanic approach will crack, split and end in dust.

If concrete is laid to a minimum of 5" thick with remesh, and you dig the sides and front down to 8" and incorporate rebar around the edges and you use a mix with a strong cement content, your drive should easily outlast the lifespan of most human beings with ease.

If decorative concrete looks so bad, why then does Walt Disney Corporation spend a small fortune on it? Go to DisneyLand and see it. Most people can't even tell that it is concrete there. McDonalds is another big buyer of PIC. In fact the whole of the USA are huge buyers of it. Why? Because it is cheaper than real stone/brick, longer lasting and quicker to install and one can be super imaginative with designs that would cost a small fortune to recreate in the real materials.

I see very few (in fact I can't think of any) areas of block-paving or slabs that do not seem to settle over time. Then they need repointing and then they need to be deweeded too. All pavings have their shortcomings, PIC's main problem is that it is so difficult to lay well, it is very difficult to find a good contractor.

[lutonlagerlout]

Good PIC looks nice. Just look at the portfolios of these two companies below:-

http://www.bayareaconcretes.com/
]http://www.surfacingsolutionsinc.com/galleries/index.html

these are both american firms ted,show us a uk based outfit that can do this kinda work??
cheers tony

[Ted]

http://www.plhimpressions.co.uk

The guy who runs this firm should be good. He is an ACI (American Concrete Institute) certified finisher.

http://www.lazenbycontracts.com

This firm is well established in the UK but I don't know whether they do much domestic work.

Otherwise, I would call up Lafarge Artevia and get further recommendations.

America (and many other countries) are years ahead of us in PIC technology. So if you find a PIC contractor who has gone and gotten training in the US, he is likely to be pretty good. At least he is interested in his trade by doing this. many PIC installers I know are very closed to new ideas.PLH Impressions

Lazenby Contracts

[wesley]

Thanks guys for all your input, but I'm still not sure if your for or against it.

We have block paving down at the moment, which was here when we moved in 11 years ago.
It looks very old and tired and it's costing me a fortune on weed killer.

We live in Yorkshire and our house is over 200 years old and is built of limetone (I think) which has blackened through the years.

The thought of PIC cobbles which match the colour of the house appealed.

thanks

Wes

[Ted]

The first co I mentioned - PLH Impressions -PLH
are based in Leeds. They may be worth a call.

[Suggers]

Wes - can you post a photie - how bad is it? (House sounds cool)
Ted - terrific post - succinct, but also passionate. I love concrete - grew up with concrete,steel & glass. Honest materials. Your missive gives serious food for thought. Have you thought about writing a book?
ps - the only chink in your armour is using Disney & McVommit to back up your argument. Two of the most pernicious companys ever to stride this earth.

[lutonlagerlout]

you've changed your tune suggers,has the missus been forthcoming?? ???
cheers tony

[Suggers]

Have I ?
Hopefully, I'll never be rigid in my ideas - bit like the pavement.
The older I get, the more I want to learn.....
Seriously thought my tune was pretty much in pitch ?
ps - Luton, you're nearly half right.