Dear Paving Expert,
I’d like some advice on our crazy paving which was laid at the end of our building work by our builder’s men (not a specialist drive company) in June/July last year; it took them 4 weeks to complete the job. Afterwards there seemed to be a lot of sand that needed to be brushed away. I put this down to excess building material lying on the surface. However, 6 months on and there is still plenty of sand to deal with, all seeming to be coming from the pointing – if I rub the pointing with my foot it scratches off and in some areas the pointing has broken away (areas where the builders scraped away the pointing and redid it after heavy rain damaged the original) and has left little gullys between the slabs. Some of the pointing stays wet- looking, with a distinct sandy colour, long after all the puddles have dried up.
There is approx 30 m2 of paving for the drive and 30 m2 patio plus paths – how long might the drive/patio last do you think – or does it need repointing urgently? Having lost faith in the builder and his workmanship (for more reasons than the paving) I am reluctant to get him back to do any repairs and wonder if I could tackle it myself section by section or do I need to get in someome who knows what they are doing?
One other thing – I read your section on DPCs. At the rear of the house, the builder has put in a step adjoing two ssets of french doors – it abuts 4 metres of wall and starts 10cm below the DPC and finishes 5 cm above it. There is some blue plastic membrane peeking up from behind the brick edging (what do I do about that? – very unattractive) but no dry gully has been constructed as you describe in your section on DPCs. Is this likely to cause long term problems?
Your web site is really excellent; great information, well set out – just the sort of thing we want to find on the web but rarely do. Thank you.
anji
crazy paving
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76-1093879519
It sounds like the pointing wasn't made up in the right parts, ie sand cement. When the cement becomes crumbly and starting to eventually wear away, it is an obvious sign that it hasn't been made right.
Anyway, what made you choose crazy paving, it is the ugliest, out of date style to use. If the builder had been any good he would havetold you have out of fashion it is, nowadays. I would seriously consider calling him back.
I hope this helps and Good Luck!!
Anyway, what made you choose crazy paving, it is the ugliest, out of date style to use. If the builder had been any good he would havetold you have out of fashion it is, nowadays. I would seriously consider calling him back.
I hope this helps and Good Luck!!
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84-1093879891
I agree with what Liam says - Crazy Paving is a deperate choice and actually takes far more skill to lay correctly than does block paving or even standard flagging!
The mortar pointing is far too weak, that's why it's 'dusting', and it will never get any better. The only option is to cut it out and re-point....
BUT
...who do you get to do this? I think it's grossly unfair to expect you to do it. Believe me, you will hate the task within half a day. It is boring, laborous, back-breaking work, hunched over for hours upon end making little progress. When I was working, it was the job assigned to whichever apprentice had most annoyed me over the preceding fortnight.
So, you should call back the builder, but will they come back? They've been paid; they're on with other jobs now, jobs that are paying a wage, and they'll not be keen on coming back to redo a job in which they are not proficient and will not be earning. It's odds-on that they'll send down their 'odd jobber', with the instruction to do the bare minimum, with as few materials as possible, in as little time as possible. It's almost guaranteed to end in tears. :(
You're legally (and, some would say morally) obligated to ask back the original contractor. If they can't or won't play fair, then you can seek another contractor and employ them to undertake the work, and then use the <spit> lawyers to force the original contractor to cover your costs. That could, and probably would, take years to resolve and the only party guaranteed a happy outcome is the <spit> lawyer.
I would put your concerns in writing and send them to the original contractor, asking for a response and their proposed remedial plan within 14 days. It might elicit a response, but you have to be prepared to bring in your own contractor. If the original firm do offer a 'fix' then you need to have an agreement in writing as to the expected standard of work, the materials to be used (ie, strength of mortar) and a timescale. In fact, even if you end up using a new contractor, these things should be agreed in advance.
Now, what else was there...oh yeah - the dpc. The blue placky membrane can be trimmed with a craft knife. The construction you describe is less than satisfactory, but without seeing the steps for myself, or seeing the original dresign, I can't say just how good or bad it is, or whether it poses a long-term threat to the rest of your property. Do you have any photos?
The mortar pointing is far too weak, that's why it's 'dusting', and it will never get any better. The only option is to cut it out and re-point....
BUT
...who do you get to do this? I think it's grossly unfair to expect you to do it. Believe me, you will hate the task within half a day. It is boring, laborous, back-breaking work, hunched over for hours upon end making little progress. When I was working, it was the job assigned to whichever apprentice had most annoyed me over the preceding fortnight.
So, you should call back the builder, but will they come back? They've been paid; they're on with other jobs now, jobs that are paying a wage, and they'll not be keen on coming back to redo a job in which they are not proficient and will not be earning. It's odds-on that they'll send down their 'odd jobber', with the instruction to do the bare minimum, with as few materials as possible, in as little time as possible. It's almost guaranteed to end in tears. :(
You're legally (and, some would say morally) obligated to ask back the original contractor. If they can't or won't play fair, then you can seek another contractor and employ them to undertake the work, and then use the <spit> lawyers to force the original contractor to cover your costs. That could, and probably would, take years to resolve and the only party guaranteed a happy outcome is the <spit> lawyer.
I would put your concerns in writing and send them to the original contractor, asking for a response and their proposed remedial plan within 14 days. It might elicit a response, but you have to be prepared to bring in your own contractor. If the original firm do offer a 'fix' then you need to have an agreement in writing as to the expected standard of work, the materials to be used (ie, strength of mortar) and a timescale. In fact, even if you end up using a new contractor, these things should be agreed in advance.
Now, what else was there...oh yeah - the dpc. The blue placky membrane can be trimmed with a craft knife. The construction you describe is less than satisfactory, but without seeing the steps for myself, or seeing the original dresign, I can't say just how good or bad it is, or whether it poses a long-term threat to the rest of your property. Do you have any photos?
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anji
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:12 pm
- Location: hertfordshire
Thanks for your comments/advice - it is as I feared. As I do not feel vengeful enough (or rich enough) to involve lawyers and hope never to set eyes on Bob the builder ever again, I guess we will have to put this down to experience and patch up the bad bits to try and eke out the paving until we can afford to get it redone properly - maybe changing the surface eventually.
I have put a couple of photos of the steps on:
http://photos.freeserve.com/public/deta ... bum=232632
As for crazy paving - call me old fashioned, but I rather like it (when done properly, of course). We have a 30s house, white painted roughcast house, green roof tiles and not a bare brick(*) in sight; brick block paving, preferred by Bob the builder, really wouldn't suit. I walked the local area looking at different surfaces and was happy with crazy paving as an alternative to brick. We did suggest some other options but when he started working out how much extra to charge us we stuck with the "cheaper" option. (Labour costs didn't seem to bother him as the men were on his books anway and they seemed to tackle our paving as a fill in job during gaps in their other contracts).
* Lots of brick now as Bob's blokes edged the paving with brindle brick - still not sure if it clashes or not.
I have put a couple of photos of the steps on:
http://photos.freeserve.com/public/deta ... bum=232632
As for crazy paving - call me old fashioned, but I rather like it (when done properly, of course). We have a 30s house, white painted roughcast house, green roof tiles and not a bare brick(*) in sight; brick block paving, preferred by Bob the builder, really wouldn't suit. I walked the local area looking at different surfaces and was happy with crazy paving as an alternative to brick. We did suggest some other options but when he started working out how much extra to charge us we stuck with the "cheaper" option. (Labour costs didn't seem to bother him as the men were on his books anway and they seemed to tackle our paving as a fill in job during gaps in their other contracts).
* Lots of brick now as Bob's blokes edged the paving with brindle brick - still not sure if it clashes or not.
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84-1093879891
I agree that crazy paving can look good, when laid properly, but so much of it isn't laid properly, which makes it so problematic.
I like the basic idea behind your steps, but I'd make the following comments....
1 - there's a lot of mortar. Those wide joints are already causing problems because of the weak mortar; as they darken and get colonised with vegetation over the next 12 months or so, they'll begin to look untidy. I'd get them re-pointed, even if you do it yourselves, a bit at a time, using a strengthened mortar.
2 - brick edging. I can't quite tell from your piccies, but aren't the spacer lugs on the blocks visible? A clay paver or engineering brick would have looked better and given a more professional finish.
The overall design looks right for the property; it's just the implemantation that's let you down. :(
I like the basic idea behind your steps, but I'd make the following comments....
1 - there's a lot of mortar. Those wide joints are already causing problems because of the weak mortar; as they darken and get colonised with vegetation over the next 12 months or so, they'll begin to look untidy. I'd get them re-pointed, even if you do it yourselves, a bit at a time, using a strengthened mortar.
2 - brick edging. I can't quite tell from your piccies, but aren't the spacer lugs on the blocks visible? A clay paver or engineering brick would have looked better and given a more professional finish.
The overall design looks right for the property; it's just the implemantation that's let you down. :(
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anji
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:12 pm
- Location: hertfordshire